Are CRPGs really role-playing games?
- Thread starter Raven Crowking
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Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
???Kaodi said:
TwinBahamut
First Post
Put simply, yes. People have been applying the term Role-Playing Game to both pen and paper games and electronic games for decades now. The term is equally associated with both by large groups of people, and is equally valid.
Many people argue that videogames should not be called RPGs because they have many differences from D&D, and don't reflect the D&D (or equivalent game) experience very well, but I find that logic groundless. After all, the term role-playing game is only of little applicability to D&D itself. How many people play out roles according to scripts handed out by the DM? "Role" is an acting term, not a gaming term, (playing itself is the older word for acting), and "role-playing" does not necessarily have the connotations of creating the role that many people would make you think it does. In some ways, controlling a pre-made character in a videogame RPG story is more true to the idea of "playing a role" than making your own character in a D&D campaign!
Really, D&D and videogame RPGs are very different things, but I see no need to say that one or the other has no right to use the term, or that the term has necessary implications of gameplay or play style. In the end, a name or word only has value if it can be used to communicate effectively, and RPG works equally well for both.
Myself, I really like good D&D campaigns with open-endedness and plot based on character action, and japanese-style videogame RPGs with pre-set characters and elaborate, interesting stories. Videogames which try for open-endedness and "the player makes the character" elements tend to be boring or uninspired.
Many people argue that videogames should not be called RPGs because they have many differences from D&D, and don't reflect the D&D (or equivalent game) experience very well, but I find that logic groundless. After all, the term role-playing game is only of little applicability to D&D itself. How many people play out roles according to scripts handed out by the DM? "Role" is an acting term, not a gaming term, (playing itself is the older word for acting), and "role-playing" does not necessarily have the connotations of creating the role that many people would make you think it does. In some ways, controlling a pre-made character in a videogame RPG story is more true to the idea of "playing a role" than making your own character in a D&D campaign!
Really, D&D and videogame RPGs are very different things, but I see no need to say that one or the other has no right to use the term, or that the term has necessary implications of gameplay or play style. In the end, a name or word only has value if it can be used to communicate effectively, and RPG works equally well for both.
Myself, I really like good D&D campaigns with open-endedness and plot based on character action, and japanese-style videogame RPGs with pre-set characters and elaborate, interesting stories. Videogames which try for open-endedness and "the player makes the character" elements tend to be boring or uninspired.
davidschwartznz
First Post
The way I see it: An abstract game exists within its rules. A roleplaying game exists outside its rules.
For example, many boardgames have a story, but it is subservient to the rules. I can't take over Catan by force, I can't rezone Baltic Avenue into an industrial zone, my queen can rule in the place of my captured king.
In a roleplaying game, the rules are subservient to the story. I can try to swing on a rope and knock over my foe, even though this situation isn't covered in the rules. My character sleeps at night, even though there are no rules that say I have to.
In a "computer roleplaying game" I can't do whatever I want; I can only do what is programmed. It's a very complex abstract game, it contains the trappings of D&D, but it's not a roleplaying game.
For example, many boardgames have a story, but it is subservient to the rules. I can't take over Catan by force, I can't rezone Baltic Avenue into an industrial zone, my queen can rule in the place of my captured king.
In a roleplaying game, the rules are subservient to the story. I can try to swing on a rope and knock over my foe, even though this situation isn't covered in the rules. My character sleeps at night, even though there are no rules that say I have to.
In a "computer roleplaying game" I can't do whatever I want; I can only do what is programmed. It's a very complex abstract game, it contains the trappings of D&D, but it's not a roleplaying game.
Raven Crowking
First Post
Kae'Yoss said:
No....you get more telephone surveys! Lucky you!
what?
That's actually something I would like to see expanded upon. If it calls itself a crpg, but isn't, by what criteria do you make that decision?
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
I have played Guild Wars as a RPG - and as a MMORG
a friend and I have a pair of characters that use the same last name, and call themselves cousins, we only use them when the other person is around, and always adventure as a team.
We used to game in person, but now live in different cities. There is usually some catching up and small talk before we settel into RP.
The two characters are cynical and snarky to NPCs, making rude comments, mocking them and always insiting on gold, sneering at any other motivations. Small lost child in trouble? what has she got in her pockets? 200 gp and an imperial token? okay we will help.
I spent some time time to "persuade" an NPC thief / bandit guild that I should be on their team. In no way did they, or could they respond, but it was still kinda fun.
I have several other charcters that are there to fight and in some cases look pretty. These are not engaged with the storyline any more than I have to be. They are the ones that actually finish the games. I enjoy playing both and prolly devote way to much time to the game.
Can they be rolplaying games? yes, but it takes work, and friends to make them so.
I will second other posters saying that planescape torment was the closest a game by itself has ever come - choices on relationships with henchmen, they had a memory based on which multiple choice response you had used in previous conversations.
faction choice and alignment deterimend by your actions
Fallout 2 was good to - I played it once straight and once with a 4 int. the second time I would be given conversational choices like this:
1. Huh?
2. wha.....
and was told early in the game - "take this pointy stick, go to that house, stick it in the guy there "
The prevous character had gotten a full explination of undergoing a manhood right of trial by combat.
I wasn't fond of the sci-fi bits and abandoned the game before going to far.
a friend and I have a pair of characters that use the same last name, and call themselves cousins, we only use them when the other person is around, and always adventure as a team.
We used to game in person, but now live in different cities. There is usually some catching up and small talk before we settel into RP.
The two characters are cynical and snarky to NPCs, making rude comments, mocking them and always insiting on gold, sneering at any other motivations. Small lost child in trouble? what has she got in her pockets? 200 gp and an imperial token? okay we will help.
I spent some time time to "persuade" an NPC thief / bandit guild that I should be on their team. In no way did they, or could they respond, but it was still kinda fun.
I have several other charcters that are there to fight and in some cases look pretty. These are not engaged with the storyline any more than I have to be. They are the ones that actually finish the games. I enjoy playing both and prolly devote way to much time to the game.
Can they be rolplaying games? yes, but it takes work, and friends to make them so.
I will second other posters saying that planescape torment was the closest a game by itself has ever come - choices on relationships with henchmen, they had a memory based on which multiple choice response you had used in previous conversations.
faction choice and alignment deterimend by your actions
Fallout 2 was good to - I played it once straight and once with a 4 int. the second time I would be given conversational choices like this:
1. Huh?
2. wha.....
and was told early in the game - "take this pointy stick, go to that house, stick it in the guy there "
The prevous character had gotten a full explination of undergoing a manhood right of trial by combat.
I wasn't fond of the sci-fi bits and abandoned the game before going to far.
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