Are CRPGs really role-playing games?

[Wik]

No. I can't have a conversation with the shopkeeper, I can't convince Baron McYmuck to change his policy toward the Gophermen and even if I complete the quest to behead the Bandit Lord, the Bandit Lord and his minions are always a part of the world, doing their banditry and waiting to be (not actually) foiled by another band of adventurers on the same quest.

Absolutely not a role playing game. Fun perhaps, but not a role playing game.

You know, back when I'd play Everquest for a few hours a week, I had an incharacter conversation with another player. It went like this:

"I am a great hero.. After all, with my band of adventurers, I slew the king orc."
"No you didn't."
"My good sir, I most certainly did."
"No you didn't; I did."
"Impossible! I slew the orc king."
"No. Twas I. In fact, I killed him twice."
"Twice?"
"Yes. We killed him, and then waited around for a bit for him to come to life. Then, we slew him again."
"You don't say?"
"I most certainly do. And, we killed his bodyguard several times, until our rogue was able to take the boots he was wearing."
"His boots? Why couldn't the rogue take his boots the first time?"
"*shrug* I don't know. Couldn't take 'em off, I suppose."

 

[crazy_cat]

Absolutely - after all, you still have a character that is more or less controlled by you that reacts to DM forces. You still interact with other players. And your character still interact with NPCs, and has a lasting impact upon the game world.

Hell, I'd almost say NWN is an RPG, because it hits all those criteria. Although, I generally find that once your character is controlled by a mouseclick, few people engage the character the same way they'd be engaged in an RPG.

This was the point I was trying to make. I think NWN is most definitely an RPG - especially when played in a small group with a live DM (or DMs) rather than in a pre-scripted world.

I think alot of the generalisations (including some in this thread) about CRPGs and lack of RP, and lack of NPC interaction, and re-spawning quests and NPCs etc are better aimed at MMORPGs (although this is just an assumption as I've never played any ) rather than applying as a blanket statement to all CRPGs.

 

[Raven Crowking]

This was the point I was trying to make. I think NWN is most definitely an RPG - especially when played in a small group with a live DM (or DMs) rather than in a pre-scripted world.

But then is NWN the game, or a tool being used by the DM making up the game outside of the prescripted NWN?

 

[Wik]

But then is NWN the game, or a tool being used by the DM making up the game outside of the prescripted NWN?

Bu NWN doesn't have to be pre-scripted, which is why it's more an RPG tool than a game - when used in that fashion.

I mean, as a GM, I'd have to make up some maps and have a fairly good idea where the adventure was set... but I could tailor encounters to the PCs on the fly. So, yeah, it could be an RPG - although maybe not as complex as the best games can get.

 

[Ourph]

It seems to me that the other thread got caught up in conflating the idea of two different types of game sharing similar names and two different types of game actually being the same type of game.

cRPGs and pen-n-paper RPGs are both RPGs. However that doesn't necessarily mean they have lots of points of similarity between them. Their single point of contact is that the player is taking on the role of a character (rather than a "side" or "object") in the game.

Sailboat racing and turtle racing are both "racing" but that similarity in name is based on only a single point of contact, there are more differences than similarities between the two activities. However, that fact doesn't stop either activity from being accurately called "racing".

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think alot of the generalisations (including some in this thread) about CRPGs and lack of RP, and lack of NPC interaction, and re-spawning quests and NPCs etc are better aimed at MMORPGs (although this is just an assumption as I've never played any ) rather than applying as a blanket statement to all CRPGs.

Truth.

 

[LostSoul]

I think Ultima V was an RPG.

 

[Slife]

Almost all MMORPGs make sense if you assume the god of time has gone horribly, horribly mad.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Let's see,

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2
Ultima 4
Planescape
Gold Box Games
Bard's Tale series
The first few Wizardry games
Kaiv

I would consider C RPGs and damn good ones. Can't think of anything else that even comes close (although I never played any of the other Ultima games.)

 

[Imp]

It's a continuum, of allowed choices, basically ranked:

Wizardry/ Bard's Tale/ early CRPGs
Diablo
Icewind Dale, or a completely railroad D&D campaign
Baldur's Gate
Wasteland/ Ultima IV*
Knights of the Old Republic**
a pre-written Adventure Path campaign with a few improvisations/ some of the later Ultimas
the Fallout games
a story campaign where player actions are taken into varying degrees of consideration
a well-fleshed out sandbox campaign***

* the distinguishing feature here is that you have multiple ways to meet your objectives. Wasteland's a sandbox, Ultima IV makes choices more important, I call it a wash.

** a crucial dock against especially KOTOR here is that you do not get to choose who your character is. Doesn't this chafe? It does me. BG is pretty limited too background-wise but at least you're an orphan of indeterminate origin. The Fallout character background setup hardly seems to matter.

***I suppose this is open to debate, whether adaptable story or sandbox allows more "true RPGness," and I guess it can go either way.