Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
Henry said:
As long as there's no 'back seat driving' going on. That can get frustrating very quickly...
Last edited:
Are DMs better players?
- Thread starter eris404
- Start date
As long as there's no 'back seat driving' going on. That can get frustrating very quickly...
Goddess FallenAngel
Explorer
There are several DM's in the group I currently play in. 1 of them is an average player, 1 is what I would consider a good player, and the last... well, he never pays attention, reads books during the game, plays on his laptop computer, and has *no* grasp of the rules (he doesn't when he is DMming, either). So I think it depends on the person.
Wombat
First Post
I've seen GMs who are fantastic players and GMs who are terrible players.
What can make them good? Recognizing a plot hook at 1000 paces. Understanding the frustrations of being on the other side of the screen. Already being used to creating memorable characterizations in a short period of time.
What can make them bad? Not being willing to leave center stage. Second guessing the other GM's plotting. Actively ignoring plot hooks "because it's just too easy".
Like I said, it can cut either way.
Equally being a player doesn't necessarily mean you will be a good GM.
What can make them good? Recognizing a plot hook at 1000 paces. Understanding the frustrations of being on the other side of the screen. Already being used to creating memorable characterizations in a short period of time.
What can make them bad? Not being willing to leave center stage. Second guessing the other GM's plotting. Actively ignoring plot hooks "because it's just too easy".
Like I said, it can cut either way.
Equally being a player doesn't necessarily mean you will be a good GM.
milotha
First Post
Not necessarily. Sometimes the personality that inspires a person to be a GM can also hinder them as a player. I've seen GMs that as players can't put down the GM reigns. This can often lead to rules bickering and sometimes extreme responses to minor plot devices that the GM-turned-player views as railroading. Of course, this isn't true for all GMs. I've meet some who were excellent players.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
I do pretty good with a good GM but a mediocre or bad GM will bore me and I'll start to drift in and out of the game or just quit it. Time is so limited these days that I figure I'd rather just play another game than play a crappy one.
dreaded_beast
First Post
Players make the best DMs 
In my opinion, I really think it depends on the person. I think depending on their personality, it will play a big factor in how much a person is "into the game".
Some people have a short attention span, others tend to do other things while the DM speaks, others have side conversations, etc.
I think the above deals not so much with being a player or DM, but just with their personality. Although I believe the being a DM can give a player more appreciation of what it takes to DM.
In my opinion, I really think it depends on the person. I think depending on their personality, it will play a big factor in how much a person is "into the game".
Some people have a short attention span, others tend to do other things while the DM speaks, others have side conversations, etc.
I think the above deals not so much with being a player or DM, but just with their personality. Although I believe the being a DM can give a player more appreciation of what it takes to DM.
scholz
First Post
I have had mixed experience. Some DMs, myself included, want your game to be more like there's and make side comments to that effect (I try to restrain myself as best I can). Here are a couple of good things and bad things I've noticed.
Good.
1. DMs are well prepared, they know what their characters can do, and are usually ready to play immediately.
2. DMs are able to get into a really different character from their own personality, they are skilled at doing this from playing so many NPCs.
3. DMs are usually team players, they know the frustrations of a lone wolf character, and so make characters that are primed for group adventures.
4. DMs often make complex and fun characters.
5. DMs usually appreciate cool story elements.
Bad:
1. DMs sometimes are critical of the game, in the game. That can be very irritating.
2. DMs often consider themselves the Pro from Dover and can bully the other players. Especially if the other players see that person as a DM.
3. DMs can meta-game too much (I had a player who DM'd constantly say things like "the DM clearly wants us to be here, so look for clues.") That can be annoying as it breaks down the veil of disbelief.
4. DMs like to show off their knowledge of esoteric rules and loop-holes. Sometimes they do things in your game that they would never allow in their own games.
5. DMs can challenge their DMs in unintentional ways (Do you know about the Rule on AOOS?, Did you see the errata on that?)
Ugly:
1. DMs can make game breaking characters. Interesting ideas for an NPC might ruin games as PCs. Their rule knowledge and sub-conscious desires can combine to make them into a Frakenstein.
2. DMs can steal your players! I've been guilty of this one myself. I've joine dgames expressly for the purpose of scoping out some new meat. This by itself is not as bad as it might seem, after all they might want you the DM for their next game, and that can be a nive break.
3. DMs might know more than you. They might be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat with a little used spell, or unepected rule call. (Pyrotechnics used to allows get me).
4. Some DMs may take out aggressions on your players. If you run a group that is usually run by someone else, don't be too surprised if the regular DM decides to play a traitorous character, especially if it is one shot game. Good DMs usually don't like TPKs but as players in someone else's game they might actually enjoy back stabbing their buddies (especially if they have some pent up aggression).
I think some of the player-ability has to do with the playing experiences they've had. If they have been in good games as players, they will probably be good players. But if they have only been in crappy games (and decide to DM for that reason) you can't really know what to expect.
I used to always DM, I am happy to play though. I'd like to think that I am good player and DM, but I don't know if you can really judge whether you are a good player yourself.
Good.
1. DMs are well prepared, they know what their characters can do, and are usually ready to play immediately.
2. DMs are able to get into a really different character from their own personality, they are skilled at doing this from playing so many NPCs.
3. DMs are usually team players, they know the frustrations of a lone wolf character, and so make characters that are primed for group adventures.
4. DMs often make complex and fun characters.
5. DMs usually appreciate cool story elements.
Bad:
1. DMs sometimes are critical of the game, in the game. That can be very irritating.
2. DMs often consider themselves the Pro from Dover and can bully the other players. Especially if the other players see that person as a DM.
3. DMs can meta-game too much (I had a player who DM'd constantly say things like "the DM clearly wants us to be here, so look for clues.") That can be annoying as it breaks down the veil of disbelief.
4. DMs like to show off their knowledge of esoteric rules and loop-holes. Sometimes they do things in your game that they would never allow in their own games.
5. DMs can challenge their DMs in unintentional ways (Do you know about the Rule on AOOS?, Did you see the errata on that?)
Ugly:
1. DMs can make game breaking characters. Interesting ideas for an NPC might ruin games as PCs. Their rule knowledge and sub-conscious desires can combine to make them into a Frakenstein.
2. DMs can steal your players! I've been guilty of this one myself. I've joine dgames expressly for the purpose of scoping out some new meat. This by itself is not as bad as it might seem, after all they might want you the DM for their next game, and that can be a nive break.
3. DMs might know more than you. They might be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat with a little used spell, or unepected rule call. (Pyrotechnics used to allows get me).
4. Some DMs may take out aggressions on your players. If you run a group that is usually run by someone else, don't be too surprised if the regular DM decides to play a traitorous character, especially if it is one shot game. Good DMs usually don't like TPKs but as players in someone else's game they might actually enjoy back stabbing their buddies (especially if they have some pent up aggression).
I think some of the player-ability has to do with the playing experiences they've had. If they have been in good games as players, they will probably be good players. But if they have only been in crappy games (and decide to DM for that reason) you can't really know what to expect.
I used to always DM, I am happy to play though. I'd like to think that I am good player and DM, but I don't know if you can really judge whether you are a good player yourself.
Lord Rasputin
Explorer
Henry said:
This, too, is generally my experience. It's not so much from a rules standpoint or anything else, but rather understanding that a GM has to worry about the other 4-5 folks at the table besides you. Some players unwittingly hog the spotlight and don't understand when you try to let someone else onto center stage.
Thorin Stoutfoot
First Post
It depends on what you mean by "good"
As a player, I'm a good roleplayer. But the thing that really baked my noodle was when we were playing a game one night and I pulled what I thought was a relatively mundane trick out of my hat, and the other players said to each other, "Isn't it nice to have him on OUR side for a change?"
That was when I realized that I'd been subconsciously optimizing my NPCs...
As a player, I'm a good roleplayer. But the thing that really baked my noodle was when we were playing a game one night and I pulled what I thought was a relatively mundane trick out of my hat, and the other players said to each other, "Isn't it nice to have him on OUR side for a change?"
That was when I realized that I'd been subconsciously optimizing my NPCs...
