D&D 5E Are "evil gods" necessary? [THREAD NECRO]

[Hexmage-EN]

To use another nerdy reference, in the Dragon Ball franchise (particularly Dragon Ball Super) you regularly have mere mortals that could beat a god in a fight. However, gods might also have the intrinsic ability to disintegrate things, make worlds, travel through time, undo recent events, or even destroy and restore entire universes.

Demon lords are really strong, but kill it in the Abyss and its gone forever (unless it made a demonic amulet to use like a phylactery). Even on their own turf a god can just discorporate and reform later. 4E introduced the idea that certain items could be used to kill specific gods permanently, which was part of the Scales of War adventure path when Tiamat's forces killed Bahamut. Even then, though, Bahamut still came back thanks to a secret avatar disguised as a deva reincarnating as Bahamut again.

4E also mentioned in one supplement the idea that gods never manifest at full power because their essence is spread throughout existence doing things like granting cleric spells, sustaining avatars and aspects, granting miracles, responding to communion, and maintaining their home plane.

 

[Derren]

If there are no evil deities, how do you explain all the evil things happening in the world?

 

[Ogre Mage]

Some evil entities seem to work better as gods rather than as demons or devils. In the Forgotten Realms, Beshaba is the goddess of bad luck and accidents. I suppose you could have a Demon Lord of Bad Luck and Accidents but it seems ... odd. If she is now a demon lord, what is going on with her "sister" Tymora? Similarly, Talos the Stormlord -- the destructive aspects of nature have not traditionally been part of the demon lords shtick. You could do that but it seems weird.

Culturally, I have always thought many of the evil gods maintained a veneer of respectability in mortal society that the true demon lords and archdevils do not. Many (non-evil) mortals pay lip service to worship Beshaba because they don't want her to curse them with misfortune. To have demons and devils worshipped that openly would be a weird change.

You'd also have to figure out what is going on with The Blood War. If all the evil gods are now demon lords and archdevils, they are at a pretty big disadvantage for the two sides to be locked in perpetual endless war. It seems like it would be easy for the good and neutral deities to play upon this division. I always thought one advantage the evil gods had was they are free to spend their time gathering worshippers instead of being locked in perpetual endless Blood War. If I was an evil god I would be looking down at that hot mess and rolling my eyes.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I would say evil gods are necessary in settings where the gods are one big family to maximize the soap opera aspects and explain why the good gods haven't banded together to thump the bad gods. Sometimes there are mechanical differences between gods and demon lords/archdevils justify this (4e and the Fred Saberhagen books where the gods are all masks come to mind).

I tend to have gods being outside alignment but hang around with outsiders whose activities benefit the god's portfolio, so if Asmodeus is the God of Tyranny, and devils promote tyranny as part of luring mortals to be LE, then he will hang around the 9 Hells. But the demons became more successful at establishing tyrannies, he would move to the Abyss.

 

[TwoSix]

Not really; honestly I find the diabolic hierarchy, the demon lords, and various types of dark fey to be far more interesting as cosmological big bads. Likewise, I prefer the celestial Hebdomad and the various Eladrin as cosmological good. Honestly, I'm just not a big fan of D&D style henotheism.

 

[Minigiant]

If you have good gods, youneed an opposition

Evil gods
Devils
Demons
Evil royal fey
Old ones

each have their own benefits and drawbacks to the narrative.
For example demons give a Law vs Chaos angle.
Evil godsis Law vs Law. Different factions in a traditional war.
Devils give Law vs Law. Forces under different contracts but with a rebellion angle.
etc etc

 

[Reynard]

Just a quick note or RL mythologies: what we typically read about in school or see in movies is not the whole story. Even all the archaeological evidence in the world cannot tell us the truth of what people believed, how they practiced, and the tales they told. Given how varied our contemporary religions are perceived and practiced, I imagine ancient people had as many different opinions and versions of their gods as needed to support their world views.

Religion and mythology are different things and serve different purposes. One question to ask is are all the myths of the god true in the fantasy world? Or are they stories to describe what's important or explain phenomena, as in our world? Are the PCs living in the Age of Heroes, being the Achilles and Medeas of their world, or are they living long after the myths are done? In a D&D campaign it can be any combination.

 

[Tonguez]

If you have good gods, youneed an opposition

Evil gods
Devils
Demons
Evil royal fey
Old ones

each have their own benefits and drawbacks to the narrative.
For example demons give a Law vs Chaos angle.
Evil godsis Law vs Law. Different factions in a traditional war.
Devils give Law vs Law. Forces under different contracts but with a rebellion angle.
etc etc

Good god v Good god is fun too

 

[Minigiant]

Good god v Good god is fun too

It's also insanely difficult to do well.
So easy to mess up in anything but minor disagreements.

Evil forces have nothing but reasons to attack each other. Good forces has too but there are fewer ones that can maintain a whole, long lasting setting wide conflict. The easiest is LG vs CG. Classiest establishment vs rebellion civil war trope.

I wouldn't trust it in anything but the most dedicated DMs or professional writers.

 

[Bawylie]

This is a setting question. The only proper answer for each has to start by examining what deities do within that universe.

If they’re walking around, embodied, like a Greek or Roman pantheon, then yeah, the evil ones probably ought to be there.

If they’re nebulous or unfathomable, ineffably grand and beyond mortal understanding, then they don’t meed to be evil or good. Their agents (like demons or angels etc) can stand-in.

And if the setting has a strong moral theme, then yeah we probably need good and evil deities, even if they aren’t physically present.