Are Ghosts Real? (a poll)

[overgeeked]

And if they are acting on a firmly held belief, it's not fraud. Intent is important.

Big disagree. We have no way of knowing what they actually believe. Besides, just because someone's convinced themselves that they talk to ghosts doesn't mean they actually do.

 

[overgeeked]

I agree completely, but I can also appreciate how hard that might be for some people to accept. Knowledge can be taught and learned because it's based on fact and evidence...you can demonstrate something and repeat it, and everyone learns something new. Belief is different, it's a deep conviction that is formed and accepted without evidence, so it can be very hard (or impossible) to convince people otherwise. "But I know I saw something, what else could it be if it wasn't a ghost?!"

It's incredibly frustrating.

Incredibly frustrating. It's hard to live in a world when other humans are so chronically disconnected from reality.

And if the belief has absolutely no impact on anyone but the believer, there's no need to try to convince them otherwise.

But that's the thing, it does effect other people. Because the believer of false things will not keep their nonsense to themselves (spreading the nonsense to other people, like say their children and other gullible people) and they will act on those false beliefs (which will directly effect anyone in their life, which will ripple out to others).

Mediums might believe their own nonsense, but they're not hurting anyone...right up until they tell someone they're a medium and start charging for their services.

Even people not making this woo-woo their profession or side hustle will spread it and negatively effect others.

 

[Ryujin]

But that's the thing, it does effect other people. Because the believer of false things will not keep their nonsense to themselves (spreading the nonsense to other people, like say their children and other gullible people) and they will act on those false beliefs (which will directly effect anyone in their life, which will ripple out to others).

Mediums might believe their own nonsense, but they're not hurting anyone...right up until they tell someone they're a medium and start charging for their services.

Even people not making this woo-woo their profession or side hustle will spread it and negatively effect others.

Would you know if someone believed in something, if they never told you so? I previously mentioned that I have a friend who is a medium. She's never tried to make me believe. I have friends who believe in crystals and psychic healing. Oddly enough they only use these things as 'aids' to more traditional Western Medicine and would never make someone else use that sort of thing instead of standard medical practice. I seem to be decidedly unaffected, based on my previous statements in this thread. We're not talking about Radical Vegans or AntiVaxxers here.

Sure, there are people who prey on the weak or those in need. If those people didn't use woo, then they'd be running Ponzi Schemes instead. And yes, there are those who will foist their beliefs on others, to their detriment, but you're painting with a rather broad spray gun here.

 

[soviet]

That is correct. I am saying that all ghosts are unphotographable.

Because they don't exist.

Then you didn't understand the point I was making, which is that a) of course they don't exist, and b) the lack of modern photographic evidence is further evidence that they don't exist.

 

[CleverNickName]

Then you didn't understand the point I was making, which is that a) of course they don't exist, and b) the lack of modern photographic evidence is further evidence that they don't exist.

Yep, totally missed that.

 

[overgeeked]

Would you know if someone believed in something, if they never told you so? I previously mentioned that I have a friend who is a medium. She's never tried to make me believe. I have friends who believe in crystals and psychic healing. Oddly enough they only use these things as 'aids' to more traditional Western Medicine and would never make someone else use that sort of thing instead of standard medical practice. I seem to be decidedly unaffected, based on my previous statements in this thread. We're not talking about Radical Vegans or AntiVaxxers here.

That's an incredibly thin line that's crossed far, far more often then most people seem to think. It's a minor matter of degrees, not a categorical difference, between those things. There are plenty of stories of people foregoing medical treatment because of their "deeply held beliefs." Most of them I cannot post due to the ban on religion.

Sure, there are people who prey on the weak or those in need.

You mean like your friend, the "medium." At a guess she doesn't idly say she's a medium and does nothing with it. She does readings and talks to people about this stuff. Charges to talk to ghosts for other people. That's preying on the weak and those in need. People that should be talking to shrinks and grief counselors are paying her instead of getting real help.

If those people didn't use woo, then they'd be running Ponzi Schemes instead. And yes, there are those who will foist their beliefs on others, to their detriment,

Yes, exactly. That's the kind of people we're talking about.

but you're painting with a rather broad spray gun here.

Mostly because I know quite a lot of people like this. I was born and raised in one of the epicenters of this woo-woo nonsense.

 

[Morrus]

And if the belief has absolutely no impact on anyone but the believer, there's no need to try to convince them otherwise.

What can I say? We were asked. I don’t walk around aggressively interrogating people in the street to make sure they don’t believe in nonsense. But if you ask, I’ll tell you exactly what I think.

And, of course, when paeudoscience strays into medical replacement or profiting from grief, it does have an impact, possible fatally so in the former case, on other people.

 

[ColinChapman]

What can I say? We were asked. I don’t walk around aggressively interrogating people in the street to make sure they don’t believe in nonsense. But if you ask, I’ll tell you exactly what I think.

And, of course, when paeudoscience strays into medical replacement or profiting from grief, it does have an impact, possible fatally so in the former case, on other people.

That's my attitude too. Generally, I keep my thoughts to myself, but if someone asks me about such things, I will answer honestly and make the same point that woo thinking in general significantly contributes to societal and individual harm globally.

 

[Ryujin]

That's an incredibly thin line that's crossed far, far more often then most people seem to think. It's a minor matter of degrees, not a categorical difference, between those things. There are plenty of stories of people foregoing medical treatment because of their "deeply held beliefs." Most of them I cannot post due to the ban on religion.

The line is crossed, obviously. How often depends on how many people make their beliefs known and force them upon others, compared to the number who don't. The first can be known. The second? Not so much.

You mean like your friend, the "medium." At a guess she doesn't idly say she's a medium and does nothing with it. She does readings and talks to people about this stuff. Charges to talk to ghosts for other people. That's preying on the weak and those in need. People that should be talking to shrinks and grief counselors are paying her instead of getting real help.

Yes, she charges for readings, and it's on the "for entertainment" basis. She's not pulling the, "Put all your money in a box and I'll bury it for you, to free you from its evil" garbage. One rather minimal charge and she does a reading. She also does them for her podcast, for nothing, in hopes that she'll see a little passive income from listeners.

Some people go to shrinks. Some go to a Spiritualist. I played D&D. Whatever works, if it causes no harm.

Yes, exactly. That's the kind of people we're talking about.

Mostly because I know quite a lot of people like this. I was born and raised in one of the epicenters of this woo-woo nonsense.

I guess you know a lot of bad people, woo aside.

What can I say? We were asked. I don’t walk around aggressively interrogating people in the street to make sure they don’t believe in nonsense. But if you ask, I’ll tell you exactly what I think.

And, of course, when paeudoscience strays into medical replacement or profiting from grief, it does have an impact, possible fatally so in the former case, on other people.

As I said, this is not an issue with the people that I know. I am well aware that it can and is an issue, for some.

 

[overgeeked]

The line is crossed, obviously. How often depends on how many people make their beliefs known and force them upon others, compared to the number who don't. The first can be known. The second? Not so much.

The second can't be known because it basically doesn't exist. Just take a look around here. Even in something as unimportant as gaming, people will vehemently push their beliefs on others. Imagine something actually important and meaningful as "deeply-held beliefs." Again, we can't talk about the elephant in the room as it violates the site's rules.

Yes, she charges for readings, and it's on the "for entertainment" basis. She's not pulling the, "Put all your money in a box and I'll bury it for you, to free you from its evil" garbage. One rather minimal charge and she does a reading. She also does them for her podcast, for nothing, in hopes that she'll see a little passive income from listeners.

Right. So she scams people out of their money and spreads her nonsense as far and wide as she possibly can. This isn't the cute or cuddly counterexample you seem to think it is. You're proving my point.

Some people go to shrinks. Some go to a Spiritualist. I played D&D. Whatever works, if it causes no harm.

Not going to shrinks causes harm to linger rather than be healed. That itself is further harm caused. So while it's not responsible for the initial trauma, it is responsible for keeping trauma around and compounding trauma.

I guess you know a lot of bad people, woo aside.

As I said, this is not an issue with the people that I know. I am well aware that it can and is an issue, for some.

People can blind themselves to the harm those they know or care about cause. It happens all the time.