Are Ghosts Real? (a poll)

[Ruin Explorer]

Sleep paralysis explains everything.

It explains an insane amount of people's experiences.

As someone who accidentally defeated my brain's own ability to scare me via sleep paralysis long ago (as discussed previously on these very boards), and who can induce sleep paralysis reliably, I find it kind of fascinating that so many people are so taken in by it and start believing it to be supernatural/aliens. The physical sensations certainly are remarkable.

I have definitely experienced false memories where my parents are adamant that funny anecdotes I have as a child never happened even though I can remember them vividly. My brain has filled in the gaps. One example was what I thought was a cast iron ghost encounter and when I told the anecdote at a family gathering my parents told me none of it had happened. There were details in the memory that couldn’t have been true.

I mean, do you trust your parents on this, who are presumably 20+ years older than you? Because I would not trust them as a point of principle.

My parents are both very sharp but 30+ years older than us kids (I'm the eldest, they had me at 30) and they don't remember a a number of incidents that happened that all of us remember. None of it supernatural (we seem to be a family profoundly immune to the supernatural by and large) or particularly exciting but a lot of it quite important and frankly memorable-seeming, and in some cases, provable with physical evidence. Like, they'd both forgotten that they put my brother and I on a plane without them when we were 8 and 6 respectively, but I still have the bloody ticket and nice thing that you got back then signed by the pilot (this was obviously in the era when unaccompanied kids were allowed to see the cockpit and stuff).

I'm not saying your ghost story was real, just like, as a general rule, don't get gaslighted by older people not remembering stuff. Also, in my experience, some older people are good at making up reasons something "couldn't have been true", which, on later examination, turn out to themselves be false.

Re: ghosts specifically I have never experienced the slightest damn thing that would support the existence of ghosts, but... enough people I respect and who frankly are smarter than most have had odd experiences that I keep an open mind, hence how I voted.

The fact that Germany and Eastern Europe are inhabitable is proof ghosts are not real.

I mean, it isn't.

It's proof that if ghosts existed, they couldn't possibly work by the mechanisms proposed in popular fiction, and it's proof that "vengeful ghosts" of the horror movie kind aren't a thing.

I don't really disagree note, but from a logical perspective you are not correct. It merely eliminates one potential way ghosts could work.

 

[dragoner]

That's as good of a definition as any, in my book.

It is, and I am only repeating what I learned, I don't take credit for it.

 

[The Firebird]

The scientific method has been applied to pretty much every supernatural phenomena you can think of, hundreds of times. There's a reason there's no proof of this stuff.

Who was it? James Randi? I can’t remember who but somebody offered a million dollars to anybody who could show the existence of supernatural phenomena under controlled scientific conditions, independent verified. He died a couple of years ago, but the prize went unclaimed.

There are also major incentives for the millennium prizes. The question isn't whether anyone has tried. But what talented people are likely to investigate. See how Loeb has been labeled a crank, for instance. Then imagine a young scientist investigating aliens. It's a career ender.

 

[Morrus]

There are also major incentives for the millennium prizes. The question isn't whether anyone has tried. But what talented people are likely to investigate. See how Loeb has been labeled a crank, for instance. Then imagine a young scientist investigating aliens. It's a career ender.

Sorry, I don’t know what this paragraph means.

 

[Piperken]

I think we've had people in positions of power who can absolutely not keep secrets. If we had aliens on ice or UFOs, we would know.

All of these cultures are made up of people who, as noted, have brains designed to do pattern matching (the better to see the predators in the tall grass looking to jump on us) and who thus turn every shadow or noise in the night into one of a few possible things.

Spooky stories (that could involve ghosts) also serve that cultural purpose in keeping community members who dwell in more rural areas informed of places that legitimately aren't safe e.g. wandering by yourself late at night in a jungle.

 

[The Firebird]

Sorry, I don’t know what this paragraph means.

The "millennium prize" refers to a set of mathematical problems with large monetary rewards for solving. They are very difficult to prove. Most remain unsolved. This doesn't imply they can't be proven.

Similalarly, the failure to claim Randi's prize doesn't imply that all supernatural claims are false.

This goes even more so for claims that can't be tested in stage test like he performed.

And it also applies to claims of UFOs, which are not supernatural but lumped into the same category.

 

[Piperken]

Adding that the malign influences in Spiritualism in the 19th century, which preyed on decent ppls' grief and irrevocably changed their personal association with those they were connected with, plays a factor in why skepticism is high regionally.

 

[CleverNickName]

Spooky stories (that could involve ghosts) also serve that cultural purpose in keeping community members who dwell in more rural areas informed of places that legitimately aren't safe e.g. wandering by yourself late at night in a jungle.

Interesting point. I hadn't considered this possibility, but it makes sense.

Another cultural purpose could be as a child-rearing tool: spooky stories (including ghost stories) might help you convince your children to stay home, finish their chores, and not go wandering in the woods without an adult.

 

[Parmandur]

Adding that the malign influences in Spiritualism in the 19th century, which preyed on decent ppls' grief and irrevocably changed their personal association with those they were connected with, plays a factor in why skepticism is high regionally.

Yeah, the traditional prescription of praying for the deceased and ritual remberance is way less sensational but there's also not much money in it...

 

[Rabulias]

I voted No. As for the "there are so many things we don't know, so ghosts might be real" argument, I believe there is a lot we do not know about how our brains and perception operate and can mislead us. We know this happens already, so we don't need to invent spirits, aliens, or ESP to explain odd sensations or experiences.