Pathfinder 1E Are giants too strong?

[frankthedm]

In Pathfinder? Yes, their Str scores are far too high since Charm Person and Dominate Person spell can affect them.

Size modifiers on grappling checks are one of my most hated 3Eisms. PF cut them in half, and they're probably still too high. In 3E, if you got grappled by a big creature (likely with a high strength), you couldn't escape except through magic. (Opposed checks mean that small differences in bonus are magnified.)

Yeah, the slim chance of escape didn't jive with the heroic fantasy vibe of the game. For d20 Call of Cthulhu, it felt perfect. Kinda felt like the same design as the TERRIBLE mob rules that let a group of peasants literally ignore the fighter's Armor, Whirlwind Attack and Great Cleave.

 

[abellius]

The Giants can keep their high Strength, it's all they've got.

That pretty much sums D&D giants up from my experience of using them in combat against PCs.

 

[Derren]

But when 3e started giving monsters bonuses to hit based on their stats, the system generated a very powerful melee combatant whose threat level lobbing rocks dropped off significantly

And what exactly is wrong that someone trying to hit you with a melee weapon is more of a threat than he throwing stones at you with his bare hands?

 

[billd91]

And what exactly is wrong that someone trying to hit you with a melee weapon is more of a threat than he throwing stones at you with his bare hands?

In AD&D, giants were nearly as dangerous with their thrown rocks as they were in melee, in some cases just as dangerous. In 3e-based D&D, the threat they pose with the rocks declines steeply. In fact, I'd say, giants are kind of weak when engaged at range. One of the cool special abilities with giants, those thrown rocks, is actually kind of lame in 3e.

 

[Derren]

In AD&D, giants were nearly as dangerous with their thrown rocks as they were in melee, in some cases just as dangerous. In 3e-based D&D, the threat they pose with the rocks declines steeply. In fact, I'd say, giants are kind of weak when engaged at range. One of the cool special abilities with giants, those thrown rocks, is actually kind of lame in 3e.

So it is a purely nostalgic issue?

 

[ImperatorK]

In AD&D, giants were nearly as dangerous with their thrown rocks as they were in melee, in some cases just as dangerous. In 3e-based D&D, the threat they pose with the rocks declines steeply. In fact, I'd say, giants are kind of weak when engaged at range. One of the cool special abilities with giants, those thrown rocks, is actually kind of lame in 3e.

Brutal Throw.

 

[billd91]

So it is a purely nostalgic issue?

No.

 

[Derren]

No.

Considering your only explanation was "they were more dangerous at range in 2E" it sounds like one.
So what else is the problem besides that?

 

[billd91]

Considering your only explanation was "they were more dangerous at range in 2E" it sounds like one.
So what else is the problem besides that?

Because a special ability that should be pretty cool is actually pretty weak. Plus, most humanoid-type encounters are capable of being significant dangers at both range and close up due to versatility. Giants provide a very lopsided encounter type - dangerous close up, relative cakewalk at range. That may be OK for things like giant bears and other non-ranged beasts, but giants should be much more dangerous with their thrown boulders.

 

[Derren]

Because a special ability that should be pretty cool is actually pretty weak. Plus, most humanoid-type encounters are capable of being significant dangers at both range and close up due to versatility. Giants provide a very lopsided encounter type - dangerous close up, relative cakewalk at range. That may be OK for things like giant bears and other non-ranged beasts, but giants should be much more dangerous with their thrown boulders.

Thats your opinion. I am quite content with having humanoid enemies which are not equally effective at range and in melee. After all the party's barbarian isn't, so why should all enemies?
And I haven't heard many complains so far that Trolls and Ogres aren't much good at range either.