Are Instant Kill Traps Cruel and Unusual?

[Jehosephat]

What's your opinion? To me there is a certain realistic element to traps that instantly kill a PC, but should that be sacrificed in the interest of giving the players a fighting chance to survive?

 

[Mista Collins]

I personally agree with you that there is a certain realistic element to traps that instantly kill PC's, but I don't know if I would ever put one in my campaign. The way I run my games is to make sure the players are having fun and continually want to come back and play again. I see instant kill traps defeating that purpose a bit. Granted all groups are different. I can see myself possibly using them at higher levels when the PCs have access to the ressurection spells. But overall, I think it would upset the players at my table. And that is not what I strive for.

 

[Ottergame]

What's your opinion? To me there is a certain realistic element to traps that instantly kill a PC, but should that be sacrificed in the interest of giving the players a fighting chance to survive?

Dieing without a chance to save yourself is one of the biggest signs of a poor DM, one who perfers a death count over fun for all.

 

[Crothian]

I personally don't like insta kill anything. If I find them in a module like for instance Tome of Horrors, I change them to some thing pretty deadly, but not not near as bad.

 

[Trainz]

[...]I can see myself possibly using them at higher levels when the PCs have access to the ressurection spells. But overall, I think it would upset the players at my table. And that is not what I strive for.

They are an absolute necessity at high levels. As soon as your PC's can get back from the dead at no loss (except gold), you must push the envelope.

And I agree that at low levels they are somewhat anticlimatic (in most cases anyways). Low level deaths are more acceptable by players if it happens during a fight than by a trap purposefully set-up by the DM.

What works nice are poison traps that can inflict more or less 8 Con damage. You really put the fear of death in the player without actually killing him. He'll stay far from melee until those Con points are back.

 

[Emerald]

I like the fact that most poisons and effects for traps deal damage (either ability or HP) now, instead of save-or-die effects. "Wow! You failed to detect/disarm a nasty trap! Take 2d6 Con damage, DC 16." A terrible inconvenience, yes, but it can be dealt with.

 

[Jehosephat]

Thanks for the replys folks. It seems to me that how the traps go, so goes the DM. Any DM ought to be able to kill off a party, esp. with adventures like Rappan Athuk or Tomb of Horrors. Not that these are bad mind you, they just have a high mortality rate and require players to be on their toes (and perhaps a bit lucky) IMO. Tombs generally do come with a good supply of deathtraps after all. I agree with what you said, Ottergame, about it being the sign of a poor DM. I also think that what Trainz said about them being absolutely necessary a higher levels has merit to. The consensus is that the purpose of the game is to have fun I think, and no one likes having to roll up a new guy every session. So where do you balance it, being fair with the players and giving them a chance to at least save for less damage and having the players being careful and somewhat fearful of the traps. It seems like if the players know their DM won't instantly kill them it makes them relax. In other words a trap is only as good as the possibility of death behind it. It is, IMO, easy to cop out and kill everyone. It shows more skill as a DM, on the other hand, to have the players always fear traps, and think that they are just a die toss away from going to that big dungeon in the sky. So, how do you do it?

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I've had some fun with really lethal traps - just made it really obvious that's what the PCs were facing.... Corspes pinned to walls. Decapitated, crushed skeletons lying on the floor. Cobwebs chopped off at head height. Etc.

Stolen pretty heavily from Indiana Jones films/Tomb Raider...

If the PCs wish to roll a search/disable device for the whole thing, then they can go that way and fate lies with the dice... Otherwise they can start examining it and work it out piece by piece - in which case it's rather less lethal?

 

[evileeyore]

I don't like to use mechanical traps personally. As a player I had noticed that by the time I could detect deadly traps reliably (say around 10th) they were also reliably defeated (either taking 10, or just needing a low roll). The only traps at this point that made me sweat were magic.

A tenth level Rogue with an Int 16, has a Search skill of 16 (most of my Rouges are either combat orientated or social orientated). At this point I pick up skill mastery and generally stop rolling dice for certian skills.

So as a DM, I only use mechanical traps for say room/corridor traps, random wilderness traps (like mines from WWII, baby), and very rarely chest/item trps.

I also wouldn't see a modern man using a mechanical trap, but rather an electronic (thusly magic) so feel more it is more realistic. I mean come on, who in thier right mind would fiddle with a jiggly-little-save-or-die-poison-needle on their underwear drawer? I said right mind.


When the mage says 'Hold up there friend Rogue, I Detect Magic on yon chest." And the party begins to slowly edge out of room, most Rogues start to sweat. Okay realistically the rest of the party bottlenecks at the door in a mad scramble to escape the blast radius, but I give 'em to the count of three before flipping the switch. (In most games where I am the Rogue, chests are akin to switches, open-trap is active, closed-trap is inactive) I pray to the great diety of the Reflex save.


I shushed him and slipped into the shadows. I kept one hand on my new lucky necklace, and my sneaking was flawless. I didn’t make any noise at all when I tripped headlong over the unconscious dwarven guards. Then light flared around me. “C’mon, be a reflex save,” I prayed to whatever God might be listening. “Reflex!”--Piratecat, Iconics


I tried to link to the Ceramic DM thread for this story, but can't find it. wahn-wahn-wahn. *Edit: I found it!*

TTFN--EvilE

Editted for grammar and speling

 

[fba827]

There should be at least some warning.. if not warning signs (such as the decapitated bodies, etc as suggested above) then perhaps even before venturing into a setup, they should be cautioned by someone knowledgable "there are stories of magic glyphs on doorways that suck the life out of you ..."

basically, some kind of headsup.. if they completely ignore something made obvious, then, well, i shed no tears. (i say that half jokingly, but hopefully you get my point)