Are Knights and Cavaliers the same thing?

[trancejeremy]

You are correct that knight and cavalier are the same archetype/theme.

So are the classic cleric and the paladin: in his PHB Gygax describes the cleric as inspired by the fighting orders of the crusades, who were - in self-conception - the pinnacle of knightly chivalry, which is exactly the same archetype as a paladin. Both classes are heavy armour-wearing, heavy weapon-wielding front-line combatants who can perform miracles, particularly healing and turning away evil spirits.

A week late, but I don't think that's true at all. Knightly orders like the Templars were quite different than Paladins, which were meant to represent the Knight Errant found in the tales of Charlemagne (where Paladin comes from) or King Arthur. Clerics were meant to represent the more hierarchical sort of religious knight, and ones that had nothing to do with the secular world (no chivalry, no romantic love, courtship, derring do).

However, I think Cavaliers were introduced because Paladins were the most holy, most good, most chivalrous, not just any old knight errant, they were Roland, Percival, Galahad, Ogier the Dane (of 3 Hearts and 3 Lions), so Cavaliers were added to create the more normal sort, with Paladin being a sub-class. Whereas the cavaliers were more, well, cavalier. Not as strict when it goes to doing good deeds or as chivalrous.

 

[pemerton]

Knightly orders like the Templars were quite different than Paladins, which were meant to represent the Knight Errant found in the tales of Charlemagne (where Paladin comes from) or King Arthur.

They're the same archetype! St Bernard of Clairvaux, in his pamphlet advocating for the Templars (Latin title escapse me - "On the New Knighthood" is my memory of the translation to English), calls them out as the paragons of chivalry.

It's the same people who aspired, in real life, to be Templars who also enjoyed the stories of the knight errants.

 

[Tuzenbach]

A week late, but......

There's no such word as "late" in role-playing!!!!

 

[Tuzenbach]

1) 1e to 3.5e is apples to oranges.
3) a "cavalier" sounds more like a horseman, while a "knight" sounds like nobility. Or maybe, cavaliers are more French?
4) Be patient.

I'd draw the line at this: "knights" have more privileges, legally and socially, than cavaliers.

After a bit of research, I've found this to NOT be the case.......

Cavaliers are first and foremost mounted knights.

http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/char/clas008.html

 

[pemerton]

As has been pointed out upthread, "cavalier" is a rendering into English of the French word "chevalier", which means "knight" or "horseman".

And "knight" is not, as a label, essentially connected to nobility - although it can be used that way (and is in the contemporary British honours system). A knight is, first and foremost, "a mounted soldier serving under a feudal superior in the Middle Ages": http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/knight. It's origins are Germanic (not Latin, like "cavalier") and are linked to the idea of a servant.

There may or may not be mechanical scope, in a class-based game, for creating distinct Knight and Cavalier classes - though to be true to their labels, both should be heavily-armed mounted soldiers. But as archetypes they are the same thing.

 

[Morrus]

Wizards and sorcerers. Fighters and warriors. Cleric and priest. All different class names used by D&D throughout the ages. They're just class names. Some mean the same thing as each other, others describe the same class but technically mean something different.

 

[pemerton]

Wizards and sorcerers. Fighters and warriors. Cleric and priest. All different class names used by D&D throughout the ages. They're just class names.

Agreed. The differences are mechanical, not at the level of broad theme/archetype.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Tom Jones, Michael Caine, and Paul McCartney are all knights. I don't think they're cavaliers, though Tom Jones has been known to be somewhat cavalier at times.

That's why this guy is so appropriately named:

 

[Legatus Legionis]

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