Are people still mad about . . .

[DaveyJones]

I'll tell you what I'm still mad about...

Snit's Revenge.

www.tomwham.com

Tom regularly appears at Gen Con (esp the auctions) and will be at GaryCon II this year.

A very accessible guy.

 

[Ferrety]

I don't think that the OP was looking to restart the old and tired WOTC stole my fun spiel. I'd say the thread started fine, and some different, and new to me, things to be mad about were mentioned. But some people just are still so mad about all things related to the 4ed, that this kind of thread will explode.

"I'm not looking to be offended."

This is actually what I am still mad about. When 4ed was released, I got this strong feeling that lot of people were punishing the designers for opening up the design process. There seemed to be, and still is, very strong feeling that by telling their motivation for the new edition, the designers were some how personally insulting people and belittling their experiences.

You could say that there were lot of people looking to be offended. And thats OK, people have right to be offended.

But still, I am mad about it, as it seems that the only smart option left for commercial entities working in the "nerd-space" is to shut-the-pleep-up.

Well, not really, but still, things might be heading towards that, as lot of companies have been closing their design processes from their customers. And well, that also OK, can't say that I am entitled to know their processes, it just would be nice. And hey, I can be mad about that if I like, can't I?

 

[BryonD]

I don't think that the OP was looking to restart the old and tired WOTC stole my fun spiel.

Actually, I think he may have been going for the old and tired, anything critical is just "wotc stole my fun".

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't think that the OP was looking to restart the old and tired WOTC stole my fun spiel. I'd say the thread started fine, and some different, and new to me, things to be mad about were mentioned. But some people just are still so mad about all things related to the 4ed, that this kind of thread will explode.




This is actually what I am still mad about. When 4ed was released, I got this strong feeling that lot of people were punishing the designers for opening up the design process. There seemed to be, and still is, very strong feeling that by telling their motivation for the new edition, the designers were some how personally insulting people and belittling their experiences.

You could say that there were lot of people looking to be offended. And thats OK, people have right to be offended.

But still, I am mad about it, as it seems that the only smart option left for commercial entities working in the "nerd-space" is to shut-the-pleep-up.

Well, not really, but still, things might be heading towards that, as lot of companies have been closing their design processes from their customers. And well, that also OK, can't say that I am entitled to know their processes, it just would be nice. And hey, I can be mad about that if I like, can't I?

That sums my own feelings, too.

The designers were willing to describe their thought processes, how they work, what their goals were. But people seemed to have taken offense by what the designers where thinking, what their goals were.

But is that something to be mad about? Isn't it more something telling you that this game is not aimed at you?

 

[Umbran]

Actually, I think he may have been going for the old and tired, anything critical is just "wotc stole my fun".

Yes, well, one might just as easily say you're going for the old, "suggest uncomplimentary things as someone else's aim, so as to have them dismissed."

But no, you're above that, right? Right?

Please, everyone, whatever naughtiness it is, show us that you're above it.

 

[evildmguy]

It seems to me that this entire thread is born of a desire to be offended. "Designer X said something mean about fairies. That's bad marketing. Designer X was promoting Product Y, and I don't like Product Y, so the corporation that employs Designer X and produces Product Y obviously knows nothing about running a successful business. Designer X insulted me and Product Y disappointed me so not only will I take my money elsewhere, I'll complain ad nauseam about it on the internet."

Really?

"Are people still mad about..."

I mean, really?

We could just rename this thread "All of the trolling with none of the bans!"

Ouch.

I mean, ouch. As the OP. Ouch.

All I can say is that I wasn't offended by any of the points that have been brought up in this thread and I was genuinely curious if people were still mad about things, specifically the one I brought up. Again, I was thinking external to DND and that was my example. However, it's obvious that some people are still not happy about the decision for **2E** much less 4E.

I was honestly amused at the time of White Wolf's attempt to capitalize on WotC coming out with a new edition. Reminded me of the Pepsi vs Coke stuff. I remembered people not liking it and was wondering about that, nearly two years later.

I have recused myself from most of the discussion, except a bit about FR with HiD, as it seems to have taken a life of its own. There is a bit of me, after posting and being on these boards for over a decade that is tickled to have a thread that has lasted as long as it has, had as many views as it has, had several admins have to comment about civility and the generally interesting and positive responses it has received. I am also embarrassed for starting a thread that has turned into an edition war, that the edition war has lasted for several pages, had admins need to step in to comment about civility and potentially left people angry.

For those that are angry and this didn't help, I apologize.

To everyone who has commented, thanks for the interesting discussion.

edg

 

[Raven Crowking]

The designers were willing to describe their thought processes, how they work, what their goals were. But people seemed to have taken offense by what the designers where thinking, what their goals were.

You know, I didn't realize how thoroughly this game was not aimed at me from the design blogs, but they did start me thinking about the problems of 3e and what my solutions would be.....something I am in debt to the designers for, because it turned me away from making 3e even more complicated, which was the route I was walking down.

And there is no doubt that I took offense at shadows. I didn't see clearly that I wasn't being addressed at all. I am so far removed from the target market that we are not even talking the same language. I failed to realize just how wide and deep the game philosophy divide is between 4e and what came before.

Seeing that, I can appreciate 4e more. It is not a game system that meets my needs, but it is a thing of beauty in its own light.

Some of the Dungeon 4e adventures I actually quite like, and are easily converted to other systems. Less so the published modules. It seems almost as though some of the Dungeon adventures straddle philosophies....rather like the recent suggestion about designing adventures for OD&D to convert and play in 4e.

I haven't read through the Underdark book yet, but a glance-through didn't really grab me. I have picked it up due to the good press it got here on EN World, to see if there's anything in it worth using.

So, no, not mad at WotC anymore. Grateful, in some ways, indifferent in others. Very sorry I let any of it get under my skin at all.


RC

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

evildmguy, your good. You can't help it if feels flare on both sides(and they do) or what other people say or do. You asked some things it's not your fault if people (myself included here) sometimes get out of hand with it

I don't think you are trolling or asked anything wrong at all. Wotc make a lot of bad blood and offended a lot of folks (rightly or wrongly does not matter) So folks like to vent is all

 

[evildmguy]

Actually, I think he may have been going for the old and tired, anything critical is just "wotc stole my fun".

Again OP here.

I have been thinking about this a lot and I think the problem is that "mad" can be seen negatively. For myself, after years of talking about this with therapists and my wife, "mad" doesn't have to be negative. So, that's my interpretation of mad, with no negativity attached to it.

Perhaps I should have asked, "who is still emotional about . . . " because that's most of what I have read. People had an emotional reaction and once that happens, it's my understanding it will be very tough to convince them otherwise. That's fine! That's up to them! And maybe the word "emotional" wouldn't have been seen as negative.

The problem does go back to me, though, in that I was interested in who is still "emotional" about things they have seen in gaming. That interests me. People interest me. But, in asking a question like that, it's probably more likely to go poorly than taken well. I still asked, though. I probably shouldn't have.

Again, my apologies to those that were offended by my post.

Happy Gaming!

edg

 

[Mournblade94]

Anyhow as I said all it showed me was 4e could not be used to enjoy the game I wanted to run without reworking my fav setting. Which was a mistake, as I think it turned more FR fans away from the system then it gained back

This is true of myself and so many other realms fans. I was enthusiastic at launch of 4e. Then I played it, and realized, for me it was not quite as good as 3rd edition. I ran KotSF, and then made an adventure. Some of my players liked it but I did not. I was still willing to give it a try if FR was worthwhile.

Then when FRCG was released, it showed 4e was truly NOT for me as the rules system did not fit the way my campaign was played before. Not only that everything had to CHANGE to accomodate the rules.

I don't like the 4e system, but it might have grown on me if Forgotten Realms was done better. Instead, I needed to take my gaming elsewhere as it was the proof that 4e could not accomodate my playstyle.