D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[BryonD]

I'm not saying I like 4e more or less than 3e. All the editions are flawed. My favorite edition currently is 6e.

I am saying like you said: It's all relative. All the editions use samey mechanics. It's a matter of perspective and presentation.

So what is your point?

Let me start by clarifying an important correction of a misrepresentation you made:
I said "Nobody is out there complaining that 3X is saddled with the unfair standard/move canard or meme "
This would be 3X fans complaining that the people who don't like 3X attack it unfairly as the OP is doing from a 4E point of view.
You came in and declared yourself "nobody" but did not remotely make the complaint I described.
So you were off track from the word "go".
Please let me know if you think you can show 3X fans complaining about how non-3X fans harp about this. I'm fairly confident you can't do it.

But from there you are just repeating my point that it is relative and completely fair to dislike differing games for differing reasons.

That is exactly what I said. And since it is fair to dislike different games for different reasons, it is silly to get bent out of shape when people don't like the game you like. And it is downright absurd to attack people simply for seeing it differently.

What is your point that is a cross-paths with anything I actually said?

 

[Minigiant]

What is your point that is a cross-paths with anything I actually said?

That I am Nobody

A 3e fan who says that 3e was attacked unfairly
and
The non3e fan who attacks 3e unfairly

 

[Garthanos]

I said this before and I'll say it again. People would like 4E more if all the powers were written in Gygaxian prose...

I am pretty prose handy on my own ... it was why I liked having the flavor text pulled out distinct from the mechanics. I find myself wanting to include multiple flavor texts for single powers ie alternates out of the box in my homebrew 4e things.

I come up with flavor text for how or why powers are encounter based or daily even.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We have went back and forth a bunch and this literally has never been my argument.

But we have powers where the number of targets is different in that list and you say they are samey. We have powers where the difference is between a sword swing and magic and you say that's samey. We have differences presented where the damage is different. And you say that's samey.

Your argument is therefore that none of that matters as to whether the powers are samey - they feel samey despite all that being different.

1. It's not presentation for me. Though I can understand that being the issue for some.
2. I literally cannot comprehend how anyone could say that 4e differences are huge in comparison to 5e's. It just doesn't compute.

And the differences you have presented as to how classes are different are literally there in 4e.

You pointed out Sneak Attack as a power - it is literally there in 4e. You talk about Rage - 4e rages are far more evocative than the bland thing we see in 5e. And the fighter with its sentinel lockdown and marking is hugely different. Literally every place you say you care about the differences the differences are there in 4e - just not presented as hugely different.

(@Oofta made a comment about the Paradox of Choice which I think is on the nose. There's enough choice in 4e it starts to blur).

Meanwhile different people care about different things. Me? I care about how someone moves a lot more than I do about small differences in what they add to the dice. Not that I won't maximise that. But something like Cunning Action or the 4e pushes and slides you decry (which do almost the same thing) is worth a lot more than a rage that just adds a tiny amount to attacks.

 

[BryonD]

That I am Nobody

A 3e fan who says that 3e was attacked unfairly

Can you quote me where you said ANYTHING to suggest that you were stating 3E was attacked unfairly prior to this post? It seems a bit of a serious retcon.

But, either way, what have I said that you disagree with?

 

[BryonD]

You pointed out Sneak Attack as a power - it is literally there in 4e. You talk about Rage - 4e rages are far more evocative than the bland thing we see in 5e. And the fighter with its sentinel lockdown and marking is hugely different. Literally every place you say you care about the differences the differences are there in 4e - just not presented as hugely different.

Here is the thing: It doesn't matter one wit if everything you say here is true or not. By your own words, they are different in 4E.
Some people like one. Some people like the other.
The dividing line for that on 4E was not good for its sustainability as a widely played game.

 

[Minigiant]

Can you quote me where you said ANYTHING to suggest that you were stating 3E was attacked unfairly prior to this post? It seems a bit of a serious retcon.

The part where I said the aspects of all the editions are samey. Therefore criticism of those system on the sense of being samey is silly as its all preference.

But, either way, what have I said that you disagree with?

Nothing really.
I just don't like the use of Nobody in D&D discusions because I've seen a lot of crazy stuff posted. There's always somebody somewhere.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[JeffB]

IMO, and I'm sure there are those who are going to jump up and down to tell me how wrong I am, is that the whole "samey" canard was simply an artifact of the presentation. The powers were all formatted the same, and most people didn't bother to actually do more than skim the books, thus, all the powers were the same.

4e made the mistake of trying to organize things differently and, IMO, that was one of the main reasons for its rejection while 5e, which incorporates so much 4e DNA, is accepted without quibble.

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