D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[BryonD]

The part where I said the aspects of all the editions are samey. Therefore criticism of those system on the sense of being samey is silly as its all preference.

OK. well you are bending over backwards here, but so be it....

Nothing really.
I just don't like the use of Nobody in D&D discusions because I've seen a lot of crazy stuff posted. There's always somebody somewhere.

yeah, ok..... Click me a link then. I know I don't need to work hard to find links for 4E fans being bitter and unfair toward people who didn't share their taste.
And another thing you can always find on the internet is someone who will happily misrepresent and stand of the way of use of common language to make a point. Because getting in a knot over some wiuld corner case somewhere certainly saved this exchange from being understood....

Enjoy whatever it is you play.....

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

For me, most of the powers feel samey because so many are combat focused. I really wish more of the utility powers had been aimed more on exploration, not combat (and not simply by granting a bonus to a skill roll).

 

[BryonD]

100%

Bogus.
Easy to say. Impossible to defend.
I can, and have, presented a laundry list of my issues from 4E and why 4E fails completely to deliver the playstyle I want. And I've matched that with how 5E is every case either removed that issue or retained it, but in a way that does not anchor it to the base mechanics so that houseruling is trivial.

And the only people who go around saying 5E was like 4E are people who are upset about 4E not staying around. You never hear this from people who actually had concerns with 4E. (And, yes, I said "nobody", please insert any rational human footnote disclaimers you may need here so long as you stick to the point actually being made. Thanks)

 

[Garthanos]

For me, most of the powers feel samey because so many are combat focused. I really wish more of the utility powers had been aimed more on exploration, not combat (and not simply by granting a bonus to a skill roll).

Rituals ... huge numbers of them and all effectively at-will and at high levels many useful ones were utterly so. The utility powers were kind of combat oriented because those other utility abilities were elsewhere.
Skills were also allowed to be super versatile though and encourage to have high impact and even provide utility powers too. The skill wasn't some lesser thing is part of the point I think so a significant boost on it is pretty meaningful.

 

[JeffB]

Bogus.
Easy to say. Impossible to defend.
I can, and have, presented a laundry list of my issues from 4E and why 4E fails completely to deliver the playstyle I want. And I've matched that with how 5E is every case either removed that issue or retained it, but in a way that does not anchor it to the base mechanics so that houseruling is trivial.

And the only people who go around saying 5E was like 4E are people who are upset about 4E not staying around. You never hear this from people who actually had concerns with 4E. (And, yes, I said "nobody", please insert any rational human footnote disclaimers you may need here so long as you stick to the point actually being made. Thanks)

You and I.never see eye to eye on this. It's OK.

 

[FrogReaver]

And the only people who go around saying 5E was like 4E are people who are upset about 4E not staying around. You never hear this from people who actually had concerns with 4E. (And, yes, I said "nobody", please insert any rational human footnote disclaimers you may need here so long as you stick to the point actually being made. Thanks)

I liked 4e. I like 5e better and acknowledge 4e's influence on it. I talk about 4e's flaws. I think it's a little easier to see the contrasts in hindsight.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Rituals ... huge numbers of them and all effectively at-will and at high levels many useful ones were utterly so. The utility powers were kind of combat oriented because those other utility abilities were elsewhere.
Skills were also allowed to be super versatile though and encourage to have high impact and even provide utility powers too. The skill wasn't some lesser thing is part of the point I think so a significant boost on it is pretty meaningful.

I agree that a boost to skills was a big deal. I just found them boring. As far as rituals go, my players, in three of play, never once performed one once. I would have rather seen rituals and utility powers united into one category. Or at least more options like ghost sound. Boy was that a kick-ass power. I had a player who only ever played wizards because of that power. He tried to solve every problem by using ghost sound or else jumping (long story).

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I'm not actually criticizing 4e. I think with a little retouching, it could have been my favorite edition of D&D. I had a good time, but some of my players couldn't handle all the powers. I had one girl who never bothered to use any of her encounter or daily powers because keeping track of them was too much work. She was also playing a druid.

My main complaints were:

• Not enough out of combat utility powers
• combat took too long
• healing surge returned too quickly (gritty realism variant needed)

 

[BryonD]

You and I.never see eye to eye on this. It's OK.

Exactly!!!! It is 100% OK.
But
1) if it is OK for me to disagree with you then you should not say "100%" in reply to post saying that my view disagreeing with you can't exist.

and

2) if it is OK for me to disagree with you then it should be considered absurd for threads like this one to exist

Over and over I've been completely onboard with differences in preference and that I have zero dispute with people who do like 4E loving it for any all and all reasons they propose. This includes things that bother them about games I love. That is ALL great.

But this thread is about how it is NOT ok to disagree. Do you support that? Or are you with me that we both have great options for our preferences and should both be glad of that and should both avoid being critical of other simply for liking one game and disliking another?

 

[BryonD]

I liked 4e. I like 5e better and acknowledge 4e's influence on it. I talk about 4e's flaws. I think it's a little easier to see the contrasts in hindsight.

Oh, I'll totally agree with the word "influences". They are certainly there.
The claim I'm disputing is that the things people didn't like in 4E exist in 5E with no meaningful difference beyond "presentation".