Are Psionics Really Worth It?

[Staffan]

And is psionic combat really useful at all?

No. It's completely and utterly useless for the psion. The only attack mode that's worth having is Mind Blast, and that's because it actually affects non-psions. Make Mind Blast a 5th level telepathic power and forget the rest of psionic combat.

Or just get Mindscapes which has a totally different psionic combat system.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

I don't agree on the support spell item. Many of the more useful powers are range: Personal.

This is very true when it comes to psychometabolism. However, the mobility, communication, and divination powers are still quite useful. I'm including time hop here (which can become a useful support power when a friend is on his last legs in a fight). Anyway, this is obviously subjective. I had fun with a psion along these lines, but YMMV.

And what about the variable DC? Anyone like it more? Anyone actually use it (I do, but it seems like more rolling than many people would enjoy, and it adds a lot of chaos)?

It's no more rolling on the player's part than rolling to hit. While I've come across people on the boards who do otherwise, I've never personally known anybody to not use this rule.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I've been working on remapping the Discipline to ability score chart, since I'm not happy with powers linking to Strength or Dexterity.

One of Bruce Cordell's rules from Mindscapes is using your primary ability score for two "secondary" disciplines, as well-- you have your primary discipline, and that score covers your primary discipline and your two secondary disciplines, and the other disciplines are mapped as normal.

 

[magnas_veritas]

And is psionic combat really useful at all?

And lastly, Psionic feats, though sometimes awesome in their potential, are somewhat of an untapped resource. Many of the feats that are homebrewed even (or the ones that make it online) lack either "style" or balance, and while the core feats give awesome options (well, mostly for Psychic Warriors, 'cause Psions don't have enough feats), they just seem very... limited in their scope. Like all of the feats now, they lack more awe-inspiring high-level feats.

Psions can take Resculpt Mind (Dragon # 287, also on the Mind's Eye on the WotC website) and exchange those nigh-useless combat modes for metapsionic feats, which are almost definitely more useful than the combat modes...most of which you get back, anyway.

Brad

 

[Dr_Rictus]

One of Bruce Cordell's rules from Mindscapes is using your primary ability score for two "secondary" disciplines, as well-- you have your primary discipline, and that score covers your primary discipline and your two secondary disciplines, and the other disciplines are mapped as normal.

Yeah, that's actually one of the variants that I particularly dislike. Why should I ever take Telepathy (for example) as my primary discipline, when I can just dump Charisma, get all the telepathy powers I want based on Constitution, and get massive hit points instead? For the class skills? For the one-level-sooner access? I think not.

Obviously, not everybody makes decisions like this based on game-mechanical advantage, but in general I think the incentive to choose key ability based solely on which score you want to pump becomes just too compelling to accept. Bruce Cordell is a clever man, but I would never, ever use this rule myself if you paid me.

 

[Spatula]

I've been working on remapping the Discipline to ability score chart, since I'm not happy with powers linking to Strength or Dexterity.

Same here (although now we're venturing into house rules...). The 2E powers were almost all Con, Int, or Wis-based, with a couple of Cha powers. Along those lines, I like the following:

Con - Psychometabolism
Int - Metacreativity, Psychokinesis
Wis - Clairsentience, Psychoportation
Cha - Telepathy

This reduces the multiple attribute dependancy somewhat, pushes psions to focus on the more spellcaster-like attributes, and prevents undead from using psychometabolism powers (instead of psychokinesis) due to their lack of Constitution scores. It doesn't really hurt psychic warriors, either, since most of their powers are from the psychometabolism and clairsentience disciplines, and Con is still important for warrior-types.

A harder to correct (and very nit-picky, I admit) problem is that a lot of powers are stuck in questionable disciplines. Things like levitate properly belong in Psychokinesis, for example. And there should be a universal-type discipline for meta-type powers like negate psionics or incarnate. But I'm not going to go through and re-classify everything.

Yeah, that's actually one of the variants that I particularly dislike. Why should I ever take Telepathy (for example) as my primary discipline, when I can just dump Charisma, get all the telepathy powers I want based on Constitution, and get massive hit points instead?

Yeah, I don't like the secondary disciplines idea much, either, for the same reasons.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Same here (although now we're venturing into house rules...). The 2E powers were almost all Con, Int, or Wis-based, with a couple of Cha powers. Along those lines, I like the following:

Con - Psychometabolism
Int - Metacreativity, Psychokinesis
Wis - Clairsentience, Psychoportation
Cha - Telepathy

This reduces the multiple attribute dependancy somewhat, pushes psions to focus on the more spellcaster-like attributes, and prevents undead from using psychometabolism powers (instead of psychokinesis) due to their lack of Constitution scores. It doesn't really hurt psychic warriors, either, since most of their powers are from the psychometabolism and clairsentience disciplines, and Con is still important for warrior-types.

Mine is similar, but I map Psychokinesis to Charisma with Telepathy and Pscyhoportation to Intelligence. That way, CON and WIS only have one discipline each (they grant saving throws, CON grants hit points, and Clairsentience is the most important discipline). My arrangement also has the same benefits as yours-- no Psychometabolism for undead, psychics focus more on their mental stats, and Psychic Warriors can have most of their good powers and their hitpoints on the same stat.

Originally posted by Spatula
A harder to correct (and very nit-picky, I admit) problem is that a lot of powers are stuck in questionable disciplines. Things like levitate properly belong in Psychokinesis, for example. And there should be a universal-type discipline for meta-type powers like negate psionics or incarnate. But I'm not going to go through and re-classify everything.Yeah, I don't like the secondary disciplines idea much, either, for the same reasons.

I'm more or less comfortable with levitate and fly being in Psychoportation, especially since it would be a very weak discipline without its lower-level powers-- which are all more or less candidates to be switched over to Psychokinesis.

There is a meta-discipline, though. Clairsentience has almost all of the general psionic-type powers, which is why I consider it the most important (and why I let it stand alone on WIS). It has negate psionics and incarnate, and a lot of other wierd general purpose powers. Like Divination for Wizards, it's the discipline most Psions simply cannot go without.

I only mentioned the secondary disciplines rule because Psions need something to protect them from multi-stat dependency, and unlike remapping the disciplines, it's a published rule by the author of the Psionics Handbook.

 

[Spatula]

There is a meta-discipline, though. Clairsentience has almost all of the general psionic-type powers, which is why I consider it the most important (and why I let it stand alone on WIS). It has negate psionics and incarnate, and a lot of other wierd general purpose powers.

Clairsentience has neither. The meta-powers are scattered around the disciplines, but Psychokinesis has most of them.
Psychokinesis has:
negate psionics, psychic vampire, ablating, null psionics field, power turning, and reddopsi.
Clairsentience has:
power resistance, emulate power, and greater emulation.
Metacreativity has:
incarnate and contingency.
Telepathy has:
catapsi, apopsi, and psychic chirurgy. (although it's debateable whether those are meta-powers or not)

EDIT: forgot some Telepathy powers.

 

[Spatula]

The ability score requirements (I personally believe that you have to have the requisite ability score to know a power as well... it's just silliness to know powers that you can't ever even manifest on your own) are a harsh aspect of the Psionic classes, but strangely, I've felt the restrictions harder for the Psychic Warrior than the Psion.

All the psywar needs is a 16 strength, a 13 constitution (for negate psionics), and a 12 wisdom (for vigilance and combat presci/precog). Those stats right there will see a psywar through to 20th level, and you can manage it with the standard array.

Power scaling is the worst aspect of psionics, in my experience. Damage powers are horribly degenerate as compared to arcane (and divine) spells of the same level. The upside of the better direct damage powers is that they are non-elemental,

Quite a few are fire- and sonic-based, actually. The concussion powers aren't elemental, but the lack of scaling means they become mostly useless as you gain levels. And they can't affect objects or undead, by the book (including the errata).

Still, I think the designers put too much weight on how powerful versatility can be in a situation, especially when the psionic classes have such small lists of known powers to choose from.

And the powers don't scale. A 10th level sorcerer with magic missile can get a lot of use out of his 1st level slots. A 10th level psion isn't going to bother using any 1st level direct-damage powers he knows unless he's absolutely desperate.

 

[pingpong]

All the psywar needs is a 16 strength, a 13 constitution (for negate psionics), and a 12 wisdom (for vigilance and combat presci/precog). Those stats right there will see a psywar through to 20th level, and you can manage it with the standard array.

Negate Psionics isnt on the Psychic Warrior power list. unless you suggest taking 6 levels of Savant....

Quite a few are fire- and sonic-based, actually. The concussion powers aren't elemental, but the lack of scaling means they become mostly useless as you gain levels. And they can't affect objects or undead, by the book (including the errata).

p. 61, Concussion, last sentence of power: Change "cannot be damaged" to this: are also damaged

the SRD has been updated to reflect this change:

Concussion
Psychokinesis (Con)
Level: Psion 2
Display: Au
Manifestation Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One individual
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 3
The target is pummeled with for 3d6 points of damage. The manifester may choose to have the power deal an equal amount of subdual damage instead.
Concussion always affects a subject within range that the manifester can see, even if the subject is in melee or has partial cover or concealment. Inanimate objects are also damaged by the power.