Are scrolls unbalancing?

[DogBackward]

These are all good points. I guess part of my issue is that it seems like the cost is so low in terms of wealth and XP spent that those are not major limiting factors.

See, the thing is, once you use a scroll, it's gone, for good, forever. The cost is low because it's a one-use item.

 

[brehobit]

At low levels scrolls can be quite cost-effective. 12.5 GP and 1 EXP for a scroll of CLW is nice. Not anywhere near as nice as a wand though. But a 2nd level caster with 900 GP can make a bunch of 1st level scrolls. Things to remember:

Caster level is probably low. Not a big deal at low level, but still true.
I _think_ scroll spells are cast as if the caster had the minimum stat needed. So a 1st level attack spells have a DC of 11 I believe.
Using a scroll requires getting it out (move action) and reading (standard action) and the activity provokes. Scrolls aren't the most useful thing in combat.

Nice for casting utility spells (mage armor for example) and healing, though for healing the wands quickly surpass them.

On the time to make, I'd say a scroll with 6 spells is a single item. Otherwise the feat pretty much sucks in many games.

Mark

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

You're correct about the save DC calculation. It's best to put your utility spells on scrolls, and memorize your attack spells, for this reason.

I think that , if you want retrieving a scroll to be a move action, you need a Heward's Handy haversack (if only using core rules, there are some special devices in FRCS). Isn't retrieving a stowed item from a backpack normally a standard action?

Ken

 

[shilsen]

I think that , if you want retrieving a scroll to be a move action, you need a Heward's Handy haversack (if only using core rules, there are some special devices in FRCS). Isn't retrieving a stowed item from a backpack normally a standard action?

No, retrieving a stowed item is a move action too. The difference with the HHH is that it doesn't provoke AoOs, whereas retrieving a normally stowed item does.

 

[stonegod]

I think that , if you want retrieving a scroll to be a move action, you need a Heward's Handy haversack (if only using core rules, there are some special devices in FRCS). Isn't retrieving a stowed item from a backpack normally a standard action?

Its a move action (w/ an AoO). Haversacks remove the AoO.

Edit: What Sh said.

 

[Stalker0]

At low levels, scrolls are balanced in cost by the fact that wizards also want to be adding spell to their spellbook. It costs 125 gp to add a a 1st level spell to your spellbook (assuming you have to buy the initial scroll). That's a lot of scribing you can do, but having spells in your book is great.

By higher levels, scrolls start ramping up in cost just like any magic item. And the caster level, DC hit tends to be worse.

I'm playing an archvist at 3rd level. I make lots of scrolls and they come in handy, but its also a decent drain on the party's overall funds. I think its balanced.

As for the time to scribe scroll debate, I think the rules side with multiple spells on a scroll. Heck, even the scrolls in the DMG that players are designed to find have multiple spells on them. And the crafting rules do say 1 day per scroll, not per spell. That might have been their intention, but I think the rules side with 1 day per scroll, multiple spells per scroll.

 

[frankthedm]

1. Scrolls with too may spells are very long.
2. Scrolls are easy targets.
3. Scrolls do not shrink when part of them are used up. The DM is free to say destroying even a blank part of a scroll ruins the entire scroll. In fact he should say as such so no one tries slicing up a multipage scroll into it’s component spells-scrolls.
4. If the DM wants to make scrolls harder to use in combat, he is free to say the caster has to have BOTH his hands to use the scroll; One hand to hold the scroll, the other hand to make the somatic gestures for the spell.
5. I say any part of a scroll dragging on the ground should be treated as an unattended object.

An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell.

 

[mvincent]

Do you think this affects the power level of spellcasting classes too much?

1) Using one-shot items effectively permanently reduces the amount of wealth a PC has. This can be crippling in long campaigns. I don't use them unless I know the campaign, or the character, won't last long.
2) Scrolls have low save DC's and (usually) low caster levels. A spellcaster is usually better off casting from memory.
3) Wands are usually far better than scrolls because they cost less, do not require you to know the spell (or be high enough level to cast it), do not provoke AoO's, and are more durable.

 

[Wolfwood2]

1. Scrolls with too may spells are very long.
2. Scrolls are easy targets.
3. Scrolls do not shrink when part of them are used up. The DM is free to say destroying even a blank part of a scroll ruins the entire scroll. In fact he should say as such so no one tries slicing up a multipage scroll into it’s component spells-scrolls.
4. If the DM wants to make scrolls harder to use in combat, he is free to say the caster has to have BOTH his hands to use the scroll; One hand to hold the scroll, the other hand to make the somatic gestures for the spell.
5. I say any part of a scroll dragging on the ground should be treated as an unattended object.

An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell.

All this presumes that scrolls are being used in combat which, as has been pointed out, is generally a poor idea. You don't make a scroll of Scorching Ray. You make a scroll of Knock and use the spell slot you didn't have to use to prepare Knock to prepare an extra Scorching Ray.

 

[Destil]

They're supposed to have massive amounts of scrolls. Potions too. But don't forget the XP component: if you're generating a 10th level wizard, he'll actually be 9th level once you dock the XP used in creating the items.

Unless your DM is smart and gives your party 5%-10% more XP than needed to be level X, which I tend to to so people aren't screwed by spending feats on item creation.