Are spell DC's too low?

[Sir Edgar]

I'm sure this conversation has come up many times long ago, but do anyone else feel that a 20th-level wizard's Charm Person should have a higher DC than say 15 or so? I mean I would think that it should be:

1/2 spell-caster's level + Int. modifier = DC

rather than

spell level + Int. modifier = DC

In other words, shouldn't a high-level spell-caster's spells be vastly more powerful than a low-level spell-caster's even if it's a low-level spell.

Also, do you think that altering it to 1/2 spell-caster's level, instead of spell level would un-balance the game?

Thanks.

 

[Shin Okada]

There is a fantasy RPG called Sword World in Japan. In the game, when a wizard casts a spell, he rolls his level + int mod +2d6. And the victim resist with his level + will mod + 2d6. What happened? All the higher level mages just using 1st-level sleep spell (the game have simular spell list to old DnD, and sleep has no level/HD cap)!

If you go for "spell level + Int. modifier = DC" option, you will soon find that all of your high level casters just using low-level save or die (or save or incapacitate) spells such as Hold Person, Blindness/Deafness, etc. Using spell level for setting DC is a very good system IMO.

 

[Darkness]

I think they're quite okay - even a tad on the high side, in fact, if you're using some books besides the core rules.

 

[Jeremy]

Depends. I've seen some caster's who's first level charm person DC was 43.

I think there are plenty of ways already in the game for higher level caster's to be better casters of lower level spells than lower level casters.

 

[TabulaRasa]

Thats why you have feats like heighten spell and Spell focus.

I like the ways it is now.

/Tabula

 

[Asheron]

I'm sure this conversation has come up many times long ago, but do anyone else feel that a 20th-level wizard's Charm Person should have a higher DC than say 15 or so? I mean I would think that it should be:

They should and they most likely have because by this time they'll have some spellcasting ability improvement items and/or spells (cloak of charisma, headband of intellect, amulet of power, eagle splendor, owl's wisdom, fox cunning etc). In addition he can have feats like spell focus and the improved version of this spell.

This will increase the DC of their spells significantly I think. If this will be added up with the proposed DC calculating methods, it's gonna shoot through the roof I think, and the spells will be almost impossible to resist (like Shin Okada said)

So I voted for keeping the current method

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I like the core rules method for stylistic reasons a well as mechanical ones (which have been adequately explained by others. If a spell is going to control the mind of a high level paladin, it ought to be a 9th level True Domination spell that can only be cast by the most powerful of wizards. He should never fall to a mere cantrip, however skillfully wielded. The same is true of the powerful rogue whose ability to dodge spells is legendary.

 

[Darkness]

I think there are plenty of ways already in the game for higher level caster's to be better casters of lower level spells than lower level casters.

Yeah, and who should know if not you?

 

[Jeremy]

Teasing me you are--yes!

1/2 caster level to DC... Heh! 9th level spells... Heh! A munchkin needs not these things.

 

[Darkness]

Teasing me you are--yes!

1/2 caster level to DC... Heh! 9th level spells... Heh! A munchkin needs not these things.

Right... A true munchkin only needs, say, Relics & Rituals, Tome & Blood and maybe some FR books thrown in for flavor - voila, instant the-sky-is-the-limit DCs.