D&D 5E Are there actions not covered under a skill?

[prabe]

The rules say that if a character spends 10 times the amount of time on a task as normal, then they automatically succeed, provided that the only real cost is the time it takes. This doesn't turn an impossible task into a successful one, however.

I've looked at everywhere "ability check" is indexed in the PHB and the DMG, and I haven't found that. Reference, please?

 

[iserith]

I've looked at everywhere "ability check" is indexed in the PHB and the DMG, and I haven't found that. Reference, please?

DMG, p. 237. Arguably the most important page in the DMG.

 

[prabe]

DMG, p. 237. Arguably the most important page in the DMG.

Thanks for pointing me at that, but that seems more like a suggestion, to speed things up at the tale. I don't see anything about that that prevents the scenario I outlined.

 

[iserith]

Thanks for pointing me at that, but that seems more like a suggestion, to speed things up at the tale. I don't see anything about that that prevents the scenario I outlined.

Nothing ever prevents the DM from doing anything except players deciding not to play. But that's what the rule says. I use it and it works.

 

[prabe]

Nothing ever prevents the DM from doing anything except players deciding not to play. But that's what the rule says. I use it and it works.

And the scenario I used worked, and led to memorable stuff. No one loses, that I can tell.

 

[Charlaquin]

Ive never done a random encounter roll in my life, and I doubt I ever will.

That’s fine. Plenty of folks don’t like random encounters. I find them a convenient way to make lost time a meaningful consequence without need of ticking clocks. If you don’t like them, don’t use them.

People hide valuable things. Not all of it will be there due to a meta desire to challenge the players. Sometimes the meta goal is simply to build the world and give insight into an NPC or group of NPCS, or into a situation, etc.

Again, that’s fine, but at that point it’s effectively flavor text. Nothing wrong with flavor text.

 

[billd91]

Thanks for pointing me at that, but that seems more like a suggestion, to speed things up at the tale. I don't see anything about that that prevents the scenario I outlined.

It's ultimately the 5e version of the "Take 20" rule. If the DC is possible for the PCs to meet and they spend an appropriate time, they get their maximized result. If the DC is beyond their maximized result, it's effectively an impossible task (for them).

 

[Ovinomancer]

But how do they even know there's a sock drawer unless you describe the room in detail? How would they ever know to look in that one specific location? If they do know exactly where to look - how? Why? For that matter why even play out the scene? Just go from "you know where it is" to "you went and got it, what's next?"

I can't think of any reason why they would know exactly where to look so if they don't know exactly where to look then they have to take time to search the room which will take time, literal game time if they have to describe exactly what they are doing. In my games it will be off screen and summed up, no mention of sock drawers necessary.

Because the scenario doesn't make any sense to me ...
DM: You open the door to Bob's bedroom. There's a bed with an iron bound chest at it's foot, a bureau, wardrobe and small writing desk.
Player: We search the sock drawer.
DM: You find the key.

WTF? Huh? How exactly do you see that playing out differently? Obviously that's not going to happen ... so what does it look like?

I usually would say that I can't help your lack of imagination, but I'll try a different tack: the example of the sock drawer is a toy example to show how specificity works with automatic success. It's not part of a larger example -- it's a toy used to illustrate a point. You've created the larger example of the room and insist that using the technique of specificity must require detailed descriptions of search each and every thing in the room until the magic spot is found. That's your example, and I'm not under any requirement to make it work for you. I've said it wouldn't happen in my game, others have said it wouldn't happen in their game, and you seem to be unable to resolve that your example is not representative of our games. I can't help you here.

 

[prabe]

It's ultimately the 5e version of the "Take 20" rule. If the DC is possible for the PCs to meet and they spend an appropriate time, they get their maximized result. If the DC is beyond their maximized result, it's effectively an impossible task (for them).

Yeah, I saw the parallel. I wasn't even doubting the text was there (I thought I remembered seeing it), just irritated that I couldn't find it when I was looking for it; it still sounds more like DM advice than a player-facing rule, but YMMV. If you're going with some auto-successes, some auto-failures, and some in-between, I don't see that my scenario above is a problem.

 

[Charlaquin]

Because even the most-thorough search might miss something, basically.

The example (from my games) I have in mind is this: The party had killed the Evil Wizard and his Mooks, and they searched his quarters. The party found a lot of stuff, including money and items and information. They had a chance, even taking as much time as they wanted, of not finding the secret door that led to the chamber where his clone was stored.
They failed on the Int(Investigation) check/s to realize that the volumes of notes they found were A) fragmentary and B) on paper that was too close to the same age to match up with the dates on the notes, so it never occurred to them that these notes, and the treasure they found, were there with the intent to convince someone that they'd found what there was to find.

See, to me the age of the paper sounds like a telegraph. All the notes and treasure and stuff would be found without need for a roll because with no time constraint there’s no consequence for just spending all day just combing every inch of the room. The age of the papers would be a hint that there’s something more to be found despite that thorough search - the cue to the players to try probing the environment. I wouldn’t hide that information behind a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check because that’s the fun part.