Pathfinder 1E Are there any plans for a Pathfinder "basic"?

[TheAuldGrump]

Yeah, but why Bard? I know very few people who ever want to play a bard in any edition, let alone PF. I don't like the 20th level idea either.

Someone said up to 3rd level, which is not enough, I'd say go to 5th level in four APG builds of the four classic classes - wizard, fighter, cleric, rogue.

And 50 monsters, that's a lot too, I'd say 20 - 25 monsters at tops.

GP

At one point I had three bards in my campaign, one played by an opera singer.

They really aren't a bad choice, a lot better than, say, sorcerer in 3.X.

Otherwise.... Yeah, keep it slim, 20 levels goes way too far. I might bump the level to 6, but that is only so a sorcerer can get a third level spell. I would recommend going for the classic 1-3 though, with fighter, cleric, wizard, and rogue as the classes. Human, elf, dwarf, and halfling as the races.

The Auld Grump

 

[IronWolf]

Thanks for the ideas folks. I have been doing a lot of thinking about this sort of project lately and have some good ideas about what it needs to be. All details aside, in my opinion, a basic game needs to do more than just teach you how to play the game, it needs to hook you into what makes pen and paper RPGs great.

You raise an excellent point. I know my posts have been more about what I think would be a good boxed set to teach one how to play the game and provide at least several months of entertainment before needing to obtain more books.

But we (well, at least I) haven't focused much on what it would need to hook one into pen and paper RPGs. A very important element as well for a successful box set that one would talk about for years to come.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

You raise an excellent point. I know my posts have been more about what I think would be a good boxed set to teach one how to play the game and provide at least several months of entertainment before needing to obtain more books.

But we (well, at least I) haven't focused much on what it would need to hook one into pen and paper RPGs. A very important element as well for a successful box set that one would talk about for years to come.

I have been thinking about this for a long time really and if I get the chance to do it, I want to make sure to do it right. This sort of product needs to serve a lot of different masters, but in the end, it needs to introduce the game, hook folks into playing, and above all, provide a fun experience.

Its tricky.. but I am getting more and more confident every day that it can be done for Pathfinder.

Jason

 

[Aus_Snow]

I think a slightly "lite-er" system, rather than 1-3, 1-5 or 1-6 of standard 3.PF, is definitely the go. But one where the overall power level of equivalent characters between the two systems would be roughly equal, so as to enable simple conversion (campaign-wise), for situations where that might crop up.

Maybe cap it at 10th or thereabouts. Fine. But make it so that PCs can at least take down a dragon (a real dragon; you know, a freakin' scary big one) at some stage, using just said "Basic" system.

Box set, with everything you need included = win. Or at least, damn close to everything you will need. Counters are a good move, and you can fit quite a few in a big-ish box. Maps are very tasty. . . so long as they're actually useful for something, including for totally new players and GMs. A set of dice. . . and so on.

I think - though, please, correct me if I'm wrong! - you (i.e., Paizo) might be uniquely placed at the moment, to publish a superb and visually stunning "D&D (cough) Basic" boxed game, that really is. "Basic" enough, that is, to truly cater to those new to RPGs, young 'uns among them. No-one else has done this for a LONG time, and no-one else looks likely to.

If I'm misreading the situation in any way, then as I said, put me out of my misery now!

But OMG, I hope I'm right.

 

[jasonbostwick]

Put E6 in a box and I'd be happy with it

 

[fireinthedust]

I think an E6 book would be cool, at least an official supplement for it.

As for a basic book, I have one by Paizo: the Core Rulebook and SRD. Just... just read the dang thing. Or have pre-gen characters, and play them. Bigger font, make them look friendly.

I wouldn't dumb it down for kids. In fact, I didn't: I made an RPG with kids in mind. Oh well.

map sets are always fun, however.

 

[Blustar]

If you are going to do a basic game, make sure and make it basic, not some pseudo basic jive like essentials. ( although I like essentials better than classic 4th) That means no skills, no feats, etc...Let kids 10+ have the ability to play it on their own without adults having to teach them. (like we did when we were kids) but make the ruleset solid enough so us old guys without a lot of time can play too.

I guess I want it to be a lot like BECMI but with some modern innovations. I know you guys can do it.

 

[Stormonu]

Having just gotten the 4E Starter set (and being disappointed with it), I'm hoping for something like the Moldvay/Cook basic set. A nice introduction, but enough meat that you can make characters from scratch (the choose-your-own-adventure characters of the 4E starter are too cookie-cutter for my taste) and covering at least 3 levels of play (though 5 would be nice).

I'd rank the Dragon Age starter as a good model as well - it was really what I was hoping for from the 4E set.

I think if I were designing it, it would flow as thus:

Player Book
- Intro to the game (what is this thing in your hands?)
- Short Story introduction (maybe a page long, with several "what would you have done?" sidebars)
- Character creation rules
-- Races (Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Human)
-- Classes (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard, Bard [or another "5th person" class])
- Equipment
- Game Rules
- "Try it yourself" scenario

Hand-Out Pamplet(s)
- photocopyable Character Sheet
- Feat/Background/Trait list (as an advanced topic)*
- Spell list

GameMaster's Book
- What is a gamemaster, and what is he/she responsible for
- Organizing a game
- Game Rules
- Monster List
- Adventure Samples
- Introduction to Golarion
- Downloadable adventure coupon

Dice, Blank battlemat or poster sheet and counters


* "Once you understand the basic game, additions like Feats, Backgrounds and Traits help you to further customize your character. They're a standard part of the full Pathfinder game, but while you're still learning the game, you might want wait to use these at a point after your understand the game better."

 

[IronWolf]

As for a basic book, I have one by Paizo: the Core Rulebook and SRD. Just... just read the dang thing. Or have pre-gen characters, and play them. Bigger font, make them look friendly.

The Core Rulebook and SRD are awesome. Great books and resources and are well laid out for experienced gamers to get into the Pathfinder game. 576 page rulebooks can be intimidating for new gamers though or our younger gamers.

Looking to lower the bar to entry of the pen and paper world of gaming is a good thing though. Saying to people that if you can't read through this massive rulebook and understand it well enough to start gaming right away then you're not worthy isn't a direction or attitude I think we should pursue.

I wouldn't dumb it down for kids.

I play Pathfinder with IronPup, I've watered down the rules a bit to help make it easier and focus on the parts he finds the most fun. I would love to be able to give him his own set of rulebooks for Christmas that was an intro to the game. And I would love to have such a product to give it to nieces and nephews as well, people I might not necessarily be close enough to to assist with learning the game, they would need something they can pick up themselves when given the opportunity.

While you call it dumbing down, I call it lowering the hurdle to ease entry into the world of pen and paper gaming.

 

[Philosopher]

I'm of the opinion that a Pathfinder Basic should be both a complete game and also fully compatible with the Core Rulebook. It should be playable as is, so that those who buy it don't feel ripped off at having bought nothing more than a preview. At the same time, people should be able to expand the game with other rulebooks, but without having to change the way they play in significant ways.

This can be accomplished by simply keeping options limited without eliminating them. Just a few races (human, elf, dwarf) and a few classes (fighter, cleric, rogue, wizard). A limited selection of feats, rogue talents, cleric domains, arcane schools, equipment, spells, etc. Perhaps leave out things like combat maneuvers, but don't otherwise changes combat. This way, the newcomers could learn the game without too much to overwhelm them. It also has the advantage of allowing the newcomers to read through a manageable amount of material, make a character, and still play with a group that uses the full ruleset.