Are we gamers an ungrateful lot?

[Chaos Disciple]

I apologize if I sound rude, or are asking too personal a question, but may I ask how old you are?

Ill be 33 in august

 

[Chaos Disciple]

Not everyone is a criminal. That means two things:

1) Few people will make 1000 copies of a work they bought in order to try to sell it. I doubt that you were serious when you said that you would do it, for instance.

2) Many people will not buy an illegal copy of a gamer pdf, on principle.

Thus people selling gamer pdfs continue to make money.

I agree

 

[Chaos Disciple]

Except that you just basically said earlier in the thread that words and ideas have no value until/unless they're stuck in a book somewhere. You said "digital media" is worthless.

You obviously don't think the value of a book is in the paper, since nobody buys a book "filled with blank pages."

Yet you obviously don't think the value is in the content, since you claim that content is worthless unless it's in a book.

Which is it?

You said labor produces "physical results." My labor produces words. Either they have worth, or they don't. You don't think writers should go unpaid--you just said companies should buy my work. But for that to make sense, those words have to possess value.

Again, which is it?

(And to answer your question, of course I care what happens to my work after a company pays for it. How do you think authors advance their careers? They get better offers, from better companies, because people see and think well of their writing. If a book isn't printed, nobody sees the content. If a book is poorly marketed, it doesn't reach the full potential audience. If a book is poorly edited or poorly laid out, people won't read the written words. What happens to a book after the author turns in his word count is just as important to the author as it is to anyone else.)

Obviously If I pay for a book I would concider the ideas in the book important. Hence the who "would by a book with blank pages" coment.


But an opinion of "quality content" is very subjective so putiing a dollar amount on this is hard to do basicly because it has a different value to everyone. A books value (aside from content or ideas) is in its construction which as I said is an important reason why I would buy one. Also the value of the book form is its economic support of supply and demand of the materials used for creating it (ie paper and ink) plus the distribution costs. So I know I am paying for a product which cost money to make and ship to me and for this I get a phisical representation of said product for my money.


Digital Media is for the most part "worthless" this is not necsarily because of ideas in it (which are difficult to value anyway) but because it does not have a physical form and as such has no worthy economic value in my opinion. This is because it is so far removed from supply and demand that it really does not even belong in an econimic system.

The only value digital media has is the information contained inside. So I guess this might be compared to free education or paid schooling but still its just an opinion.


And to adress your comments on the value of labor for writers

Your writing is worth whatever you can get for it. Personally I dont care much for writing done only for money and fame. But if your concernd about what the company does with it I would suggest finding out how they will be relesaing your work before doing it.

 

[Storm Raven]

Obviously If I pay for a book I would concider the ideas in the book important. Hence the who "would by a book with blank pages" coment.

A books primary value is the content - that's why blank notebooks are quite cheap. DVDs and CDs are another good example of this - blank ones sell for a fraction of the cost of ones that have content on them. The market, at least in the U.S., has a pretty good way of determining that value - it is called "consumer choice".

But an opinion of "quality content" is very subjective so putiing a dollar amount on this is hard to do basicly because it has a different value to everyone. A books value (aside from content or ideas) is in its construction which as I said is an important reason why I would buy one. Also the value of the book form is its economic support of supply and demand of the materials used for creating it (ie paper and ink) plus the distribution costs. So I know I am paying for a product which cost money to make and ship to me and for this I get a phisical representation of said product for my money.

Digital Media is for the most part "worthless" this is not necsarily because of ideas in it (which are difficult to value anyway) but because it does not have a physical form and as such has no worthy economic value in my opinion. This is because it is so far removed from supply and demand that it really does not even belong in an econimic system.

You need to go take some basic economics courses, since you clearly don't understand what the terms supply and demand mean if you think that digital media is "worthless" because it is "removed from supply and demand". You also need to study up on how markets set value - here's a hint: it isn't primarily based upon the inputs needed to manufacture a good.

The only value digital media has is the information contained inside. So I guess this might be compared to free education or paid schooling but still its just an opinion.

There is no such thing as free education. Someone always pays for it; often it is you via taxes.

 

[catsclaw227]

Digital Media is for the most part "worthless" this is not necsarily because of ideas in it (which are difficult to value anyway) but because it does not have a physical form and as such has no worthy economic value in my opinion. This is because it is so far removed from supply and demand that it really does not even belong in an econimic system.

You still did not answer my question from page 3 of this thread: Do you believe all software should be free since programming and code are essentially ideas, have no physical form, and require you to use your own computer.

In our digital age, many people have jobs that rely soley on their ideas and the virtual pixels on a screen. I am a programmer by trade, and I take ideas, algorithms and processes and combine them in a soup to give you a virtual experience, online.

Do you feel that because I do not produce hard goods that my work is valueless? Hardly, otherwise software development wouldn't be a well paid profession.

And to adress your comments on the value of labor for writers

Your writing is worth whatever you can get for it. Personally I dont care much for writing done only for money and fame. But if your concernd about what the company does with it I would suggest finding out how they will be relesaing your work before doing it.

I am quite sure that many writers to it for the joy of producing, the storytelling, the cathartic process, the pleasure gained by knowing the reader's experience was positive.

But many ALSO write as a means providing for themselves or their families. There is nothing wrong with being creative AND making money at it.

I'll bet that RPG writers (pdf writers especially) are not doing it only for money. I hear that it's quite a struggle to comfortable lifestyle (let alone, survive) on RPG writing alone.

 

[pawsplay]

The flip side to giving something away for free is you don't get to decide how much someone else will appreciate it.

I think it's weird Monte Cook would be surprised by a few negative responses.... his giveaways reach probably, what, thousands of customers?

 

[Particle_Man]

Actually, to a greater and greater extent, money itself is digital. I can pay bills online, for example. But if I tried to "duplicate" my online money, I think some people would have something to say about that, and I would soon be playing FATAL: The LARP in prison somewhere.

 

[catsclaw227]

Actually, to a greater and greater extent, money itself is digital. I can pay bills online, for example. But if I tried to "duplicate" my online money, I think some people would have something to say about that, and I would soon be playing FATAL: The LARP in prison somewhere.

That's a good point..... and funny too!

 

[RFisher]

Do you believe all software should be free since programming and code are essentially ideas, have no physical form, and require you to use your own computer.

I'm a programmer by trade myself, & I have argued that nigh all software should be free. In this sense: There will always be people willing to pay me to write software that doesn't exist. Or to modify existing software to do things it doesn't. Once I've written it, though, I'd prefer that as many people as possible benefit from it. I may charge to write it, but I don't want to charge for copying it once I've written it. I don't want anyone to charge for copying it.

I might promise to not distribute copies myself, so you can try to keep it a secret if you wish. I can compromise on that point for a price.

That's how it'll work when I'm put in charge of the world.

 

[RFisher]

Actually, to a greater and greater extent, money itself is digital.

Heck, money has been abstract my whole life. Even beyond the fact that the paper isn't backed by precious metal, the banking system made it mostly just numbers in a ledger long before computers came along.