Are we sick of Dwarves Yet?

[Kae'Yoss]

Inspired by the other two threads about drow and elves, we look on the other classical fantasy race. Do you like them, or do you hate it when elves and drow are bashed for whetever reason, while dwarves are also a powerful race (even more in 3.5), also with several subraces, but it never shows up cause people are too busy bashing pointy-ears (and after all, it's OK for dwarves to have 100 subraces - 99 more than almost every other race - because elves have 200).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Even though I may sound like a dwarf-basher, I voted for "not sick". Why? Dwarves are an important part of fantasy, just like elves, halflings, orcs and humans.

There are a couple of dwarf-related issues I'm kinda sick of, though:

There are a lot of elf-bashers out there (and, at least as far as I have seen, not nearly as many "rabid elf-fanboys" with a "make elves +10 everything cause they're sooo coool" attitude as many want you to believe. OK, that may be due to the fact that I only frequent enworld, not the wizards boards or RPGnet, which are infamous for their Trolls & and Thickheads), but noone ever bashes dwarves, even though they also have the "problems" elves have: They also have several subraces (especially in the FR, which are usually called as the breeding ground of countless elf subraces). Usually this is downplayed because "there are even more elven subraces". Nonetheless the dwarves are second, with the third close behind. Not that I have a problem with subraces, even when there's a lot of them.... Another "problem" is that dwarves are quite powerful, too, especially in 3.5, where they get more goodies on top of the old stuff (including con for cha, and cha isn't a problem for a lot of character builds, especially for power gamers).

Then, dwarves are often used by people to play someone who doesn't care about dialogues and is quite greedy to boot. "I can demand payment, I'm a dwarf" "I don't have to try to talk nice, I'm a dwarf" is something I've heard quite a lot.

But dwarves themselves? Another nice race for players to play. If you like tradition, community, a clearly defined chain of command and hierarchical structure in everyday life, mental privacy, and valor, honor, and unwavering courage, go for them.

 

[Akrasia]

Playing a dwarf PC gives me the chance to use my horrible faux Scottish accent without embarassment.

Sick of that? NEVER. (Though my fellow players may disagree ... )

 

[Turanil]

Are we sick of Dwarves Yet?

LOL!

Playing a dwarf PC gives me the chance to use my horrible faux Scottish accent without embarassment.

Sick of that? NEVER. (Though my fellow players may disagree ... )

LOL!

 

[langolas]

Playing a dwarf PC gives me the chance to use my horrible faux Scottish accent without embarassment.

Sick of that? NEVER. (Though my fellow players may disagree ... )

Heh, my friend had his dwarf talk like the Billy Bob Thornton from Slingblade. It was humorous at first, but after about the 100th "Uh huh" uttered we nearly knifed him. And I'm talking my friend, not the dwarf

 

[Dwarf_Paladin]

Dwarfs are the !

 

[Agamemnon]

Dwarves need more original ideas to them, they've become too stagnant. They're still ten times better than any darn form of elf. At least a dwarf ain't pretty and can be bad at things, unlike your average lah-di-dah-posh pointy-ear.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Dwarves can be bad at things? In D&D 3.5? Well, they're a bit less personable than humans, but, really, if any of the core races deserve an LA of +1, it's dwarves.

I love dwarves, always have, presumably always will. Their culture, their attitude, their look; everything just clicks for me. You just can't go wrong with a race of short, subterranean Confucian saxons.

With that said, 3.5 has made dwarves far too good.

It's not the Con for Cha trade - paladins, sorcerers, bards, rogues, clerics, and almost 25% of all good PrCs make good use of Charisma. (A *real* min/maxer knows that abusing Divine Grace and the various Divine feats is much better than relying on, say, Strength) It's the net +3 on saves against poison and Fort save magic, and +2 to saves against *all* magic, that makes dwarves so incredibly good. Bonuses against two common creature types and the melee acumen to be toe to toe with them doesn't hurt, and neither does weapon familiarity with the dwarven waraxe.

I've benefited from the 3.5 exalting of the dwarf, but also recognize it as unbalanced.

Finally, dwarves, unlike elves (who, with their long childhoods and Con penalty *look* like a race in decline) have no logical reason not to be dominating every fantasy world by the rules as written. They make great warriors and wizards, decent rogues, breed early and often considering their long lifespans, wield massive economic influence, and are renowned as great magic item crafters. How can this race not be dominating the allegedly more plentiful humans, orcs and halfings?

 

[Incenjucar]

Because everyone tries to toss them?

Dwarves are nifty, especially when not done -too- stereotyped. Personally, I've never gotten around to playing one (then again, I don't play much at all, so, heh), but they're interesting in their own way. But, as mentioned, and as I said with elves, they don't make any fricking sense in how they're used in a game.

Dwarves are mighty mighty arse-kicking machines. Put them on mounts, and they own the field. Make them in to monks, and they own the field anyhow. Make them mounted monks, and people will wonder how the heck they can reach you to bash your brains in, but they'll do it anyhow.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's the net +3 on saves against poison and Fort save magic, and +2 to saves against *all* magic, that makes dwarves so incredibly good. Bonuses against two common creature types and the melee acumen to be toe to toe with them doesn't hurt, and neither does weapon familiarity with the dwarven waraxe.

I've benefited from the 3.5 exalting of the dwarf, but also recognize it as unbalanced.

Finally, dwarves, unlike elves (who, with their long childhoods and Con penalty *look* like a race in decline) have no logical reason not to be dominating every fantasy world by the rules as written. They make great warriors and wizards, decent rogues, breed early and often considering their long lifespans, wield massive economic influence, and are renowned as great magic item crafters. How can this race not be dominating the allegedly more plentiful humans, orcs and halfings?

What must you think of the warforged then!!!!

That's right, the reason people don't hate dwarves that much -- any problem they have is a lot worse on another race.