Mystery Man
First Post
Being the evil D&D playing, satan worshiper that I am, I would have just beat him unconscious with that new DMG. 3.5 books are really very heavy.
Are We the Devil's Children?
- Thread starter Djeta Thernadier
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A few years ago while I was attending college, a lady friend of mine was checking her email on my computer. I had heard she grew up in a very religous and conservative environment. Deciding to test the waters, I pulled out one of my AD&D books from my closet...
Her reaction was less than stellar. She spouted off some laughable hearsay concerning the evil, demonic influence those games had on her friend's cousin's brother.
At that point I couldn't resist. Book in hand, I walked up behind her and started brushing the cover against her shoulder, frantically exclaiming something to the affect of, "Dear god, you're right, it's corrupting your soul! The vile tome is tainting your soul!"
Needless to say, the joke didn't sit with her very well, and she was genuinely upset that I had actually touched her with that dirty book.
It was well worth it, though. The look on her face was priceless.
Her reaction was less than stellar. She spouted off some laughable hearsay concerning the evil, demonic influence those games had on her friend's cousin's brother.
At that point I couldn't resist. Book in hand, I walked up behind her and started brushing the cover against her shoulder, frantically exclaiming something to the affect of, "Dear god, you're right, it's corrupting your soul! The vile tome is tainting your soul!"
Needless to say, the joke didn't sit with her very well, and she was genuinely upset that I had actually touched her with that dirty book.
It was well worth it, though. The look on her face was priceless.
Tyris Harmon
First Post
That's weird to me, cuz I played with two guys who were very religious. One was a DM in a long term 2E game years back.
I've never run into that kinda flak from other people. Though I keep hearing stories from other who have.
I've never run into that kinda flak from other people. Though I keep hearing stories from other who have.
Around here, the "D&D Mistique" is more associated with fat sweaty nerdy looking guys who can't get dates than uber-evil satan worshippers, so I've never been bothered about whether my D&D hobby translates into a love of, you know, that one guy.
Now, being a fat, sweaty, nerdy looking guy who can't get a date...that's another matter entirely.
Now, being a fat, sweaty, nerdy looking guy who can't get a date...that's another matter entirely.
Celebrim
Legend
I have reams of these stories but I won't bore you with them. It seemed like half the lads in my early gaming groups (including me) had been barred by thier parents at one time or the other from playing 'that Satanic game'.
But let's be fair here. My parents had bought me the Basic set back in 1981 and seemed casually fascinated by it (and certainly not offended) despite thier ultra-conservative beliefs.
But exposure to the 'advanced' materials set them off in hurry. There were quite abit of naked Succubi drawn in black ink decorating the interiors of the 1st edition AD&D material, nor did it shy away from casually mentioning things that today go under the 'vile' label - like necrophagia, cannibalism, blood offerings to demons and general demology inspired 'monsters', etc. Even that wasn't enough to get me banned from playing the game. What ultimately got me banned from the game and my books taken away from me was them finding my little brothers crude attempts to copy the pictures in the 1st edition books. In thier minds, his crudely violent and macabre doodles was clear evidence that he was slipping under Satan's influence. Granted, those pictures where a little scary looking but certainly weren't out of the ordinary for a reasonably prococious boy of a particular age.
I think my parents always knew that their ban was having little or no effect on keeping me from playing, but we seemed to have this agreement where they would studiously ignore certain materials in the bottom of certain drawers so long as it didn't appear to be bewitching my brother in anyway.
And also to be fair, I have known quite a few players (especially back in the early days) who did live up to the image. For one thing, all the kids I knew who thought Satanism was cool upon hearing that this was a devil worshiping game were like, "Hey, man, cool! We got to play that."
And lastly, also to be fair, there are above average numbers of Wiccans and neo-pagans playing the game, and not a few of same who first became fascinated by paganism via exposure to the game. Jack Chick is a foaming idiot, but like many foaming idiots he has some sliver of truth at the heart of his complaint. (Whether that sliver of truth is something to be concerned about is a much weightier question than whether or not young outcast D&D kids grow up to be spell casting neo-druids.) Foaming idiot or not, one thing he isn't is stupid. Misguided? Certainly. Eager to take offence, and just as eager to offend? Certainly. Way out on a limb even according to the doctrine he espouses? Probably. But, completely stupid, a cad, or a villian? No, I don't think so. I sometimes think that too often we respond to foaming idiots with logicless and ignorant accusations with derision, irrationality, and dismissal based on ignorance and lack of empathy - which puts our opinions down at the exact same level.
Exactly what are we trying to prove with this thread? Everybody here is a gamer, so with the hope that I'm not going to offend anyone (because if the pot is black I'm just as black as you), but aren't we just congregating in a group that we feel certain is just going to confirm our own opinions so we can make fun of someone else?
The problem with all the Jack Chick's of this world and the whole 'D&D is Satanism' mindset is that the truth tends to be a whole lot more complex than they are willing to accept (or admittedly in some cases grasp). There are alot of whacked out foaming freaks facinated by Christianity too, and as a percentage probably more crazy types get attracted to religion than ever get attracted to something as mundane as a game. It's alot easier to work yourself up into an cathartic emotional frenzy over a religion (rightly or wrongly) that it is over rolling a D20 (and if you are working yourself into a frenzy over rolling a D20 you scare me about as much as you scare Jack Chick). But that doesn't mean that you can judge the whole Christian (or any other religious community) community by the acts of a few or a fringe. Are we _actually_ as enlightened in our opinions as we would like to think?
Or am I alone in thinking that maybe it matters that we should be _even though it is only a game_? Is it too much to ask that in responce to a serious question by some earnest fellow who thinks he is doing the right thing that we give a respectful answer? Can we take a game at least that seriously for a moment, because ultimately the question then is not how seriously we should take the game but how seriously we should take our fellow man.
For myself, I'm rather convinced that Barney is the anti-Christ, but D&D appears to be a generally harmless pastime especially compared to what non-geeks generally do for leisure.
But let's be fair here. My parents had bought me the Basic set back in 1981 and seemed casually fascinated by it (and certainly not offended) despite thier ultra-conservative beliefs.
But exposure to the 'advanced' materials set them off in hurry. There were quite abit of naked Succubi drawn in black ink decorating the interiors of the 1st edition AD&D material, nor did it shy away from casually mentioning things that today go under the 'vile' label - like necrophagia, cannibalism, blood offerings to demons and general demology inspired 'monsters', etc. Even that wasn't enough to get me banned from playing the game. What ultimately got me banned from the game and my books taken away from me was them finding my little brothers crude attempts to copy the pictures in the 1st edition books. In thier minds, his crudely violent and macabre doodles was clear evidence that he was slipping under Satan's influence. Granted, those pictures where a little scary looking but certainly weren't out of the ordinary for a reasonably prococious boy of a particular age.
I think my parents always knew that their ban was having little or no effect on keeping me from playing, but we seemed to have this agreement where they would studiously ignore certain materials in the bottom of certain drawers so long as it didn't appear to be bewitching my brother in anyway.
And also to be fair, I have known quite a few players (especially back in the early days) who did live up to the image. For one thing, all the kids I knew who thought Satanism was cool upon hearing that this was a devil worshiping game were like, "Hey, man, cool! We got to play that."
And lastly, also to be fair, there are above average numbers of Wiccans and neo-pagans playing the game, and not a few of same who first became fascinated by paganism via exposure to the game. Jack Chick is a foaming idiot, but like many foaming idiots he has some sliver of truth at the heart of his complaint. (Whether that sliver of truth is something to be concerned about is a much weightier question than whether or not young outcast D&D kids grow up to be spell casting neo-druids.) Foaming idiot or not, one thing he isn't is stupid. Misguided? Certainly. Eager to take offence, and just as eager to offend? Certainly. Way out on a limb even according to the doctrine he espouses? Probably. But, completely stupid, a cad, or a villian? No, I don't think so. I sometimes think that too often we respond to foaming idiots with logicless and ignorant accusations with derision, irrationality, and dismissal based on ignorance and lack of empathy - which puts our opinions down at the exact same level.
Exactly what are we trying to prove with this thread? Everybody here is a gamer, so with the hope that I'm not going to offend anyone (because if the pot is black I'm just as black as you), but aren't we just congregating in a group that we feel certain is just going to confirm our own opinions so we can make fun of someone else?
The problem with all the Jack Chick's of this world and the whole 'D&D is Satanism' mindset is that the truth tends to be a whole lot more complex than they are willing to accept (or admittedly in some cases grasp). There are alot of whacked out foaming freaks facinated by Christianity too, and as a percentage probably more crazy types get attracted to religion than ever get attracted to something as mundane as a game. It's alot easier to work yourself up into an cathartic emotional frenzy over a religion (rightly or wrongly) that it is over rolling a D20 (and if you are working yourself into a frenzy over rolling a D20 you scare me about as much as you scare Jack Chick). But that doesn't mean that you can judge the whole Christian (or any other religious community) community by the acts of a few or a fringe. Are we _actually_ as enlightened in our opinions as we would like to think?
Or am I alone in thinking that maybe it matters that we should be _even though it is only a game_? Is it too much to ask that in responce to a serious question by some earnest fellow who thinks he is doing the right thing that we give a respectful answer? Can we take a game at least that seriously for a moment, because ultimately the question then is not how seriously we should take the game but how seriously we should take our fellow man.
For myself, I'm rather convinced that Barney is the anti-Christ, but D&D appears to be a generally harmless pastime especially compared to what non-geeks generally do for leisure.
Last edited:
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
It's funny how it's okay to characterize Christians as nuts, wackos, et cetera, and how rude behavior directed at Christians is applauded.
Well, not funny really. More like pathetic.
But each to their own, I suppose.
Well, not funny really. More like pathetic.
But each to their own, I suppose.
hellbender
First Post
Mystic_23 said:
Emmett, Idaho! My God, there are like 35-40 people there. I am suprised the lynch mob hasn't caught up with you yet. (Ok, there are more than 40 people, I have an evil twisted weird uncle that lives there).
h
Sonny
Adventurer
die_kluge said:
Ah the Bryan J. Maloney defense eh?
Once in high school I had my English teacher grab my DMG after getting a glimpse of it while I was rummaging through my backpack. She informed me that it was satanic and evil and that she would have me suspended if I was caught with it again. I told her I was an atheist, and didn't believe in Satan. Nor did I like her trying to push her Christian values on me given that it was a public school.
Faced with this argument she had no choice but to keep my book till the end of the day then warn me about bringing it to school again when I picked it up later. Oh well. I thought it was good defense (at the time).
PowerWordDumb
First Post
Mark Chance said:
I for one don't think it's okay to bash christians, or any other religious (or non-religious or ethnic) group, nor is it okay to treat them rudely, despite my prior joking about "baiting for wackos". I fully support everyone's right to their beliefs, no matter what they are. But that right ends when you shove your beliefs in my face and treat me like a degenerate for not following what you hold dear.
Closed-minded idiocy doesn't necessarily have anything to do with one's religion, it's more of a personal defect that in some cases encourages people to spout off loudly about their beliefs in inappropriate settings. These are the people we've all had run-ins with over the years, not the good-natured sort who quietly follow their beliefs and stay out of other people's lives.
That said, when accosted by a genuine wacko who feels perfectly free to abuse you for his beliefs, it's entirely fair game to respond in kind. If you can produce a compelling enough argument to crush their entire belief system and leave them shattered and in tears, more power to you. This is not anti-religion, this is anti-unhinged-wacko-nutjob.
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