D&D 5E Are Wizards really all that?

[Maxperson]

Don't forget the tail!

I remembered the tail in so many other posts, too!!

 

[Minigiant]

Don't forget the tail!

You think mariliths do all those squats so you can forgot about their tails?

Anyway, Reactive is such a simple trait that it's a shame no class has it.

 

[James Gasik]

Monsters and NPCs don't follow the same rules as PCs

Even when you become a monster?

 

[Maxperson]

Even when you become a monster?

You don't cease being a PC at any time unless the DM takes your sheet and lets you know to make a new PC.

 

[Undrave]

5E:"You don't need magic items."
MM: Half the creatures are resistant to nonmagical attacks.

Exactly! Resistance to nonmagical attack is an annoying mechanic that doesn't really bring anything interesting to the game. It'd be way cooler if monsters had resistance that could be turned off by doing certain actions. A bit like how Trolls and Werewolves can have their regeneration ability stunted.

Stuff like an armoured creature you can knock prone to exposed the soft underbelly and make them lose their resistance.

 

[ECMO3]

So I don't get all the handwringing about class balance.

Yes Wizards are all that. They are more powerful than any other class. They are more flexible than any other class and they can be "the best" at any role other than healer.

That is not a problem in games I play though. Despite being the hands down best class some of my parties have no wizards at all, and the ones that have wizards have lots of other fun characters too. I have played parties with 3 fighters. I don't think I have actually played in a party with 3 wizards.

In short I don't see this as a problem that needs to be fixed. If you are overly concerned abotu being "the best" and can't have fun if you aren't by all means play a wizard, but a lot of players simply don't care that there are more powerful builds possible or that their fighter will never be as powerful as a wizard and when you get down to it 5E is so flexible you could play a party full of nothing except Wizards and it would work fine.

In short Wizards are the most powerful class. That is not only ok, it makes for a better game IME.

 

[Undrave]

You only get one free object interaction a round. The next one takes your action.

All your gear is melded, so somebody else would have to carry them and hand them to you. Since the rules don’t distinguish by number of hands, that would take 8 turns.

So like... 1 minute outside of a battle? If you prepare in advance it's not that hard to be ready.

The image of the party encountering an enemy Marilith and it taking 6 turns to unsheath all their swords is really funny though.

I'd assume they can draw all 6 swords, using their 6 hands, in one go. I mean, I have two hands and I can totally draw 2 weapons at once, it's not outside the real of reality. the object interaction rules when applies to sheated weapons are weird... there should be an exception for proper sheath since that's basically what they are there for! It should be 1 free unsheathing per free hand.

Preventing an enemy from using a gun, or wand of disintegration, to kill an ally isn't a 'fluff' thing. It's a serious mechanical consideration. Wizards have dozens of ways to prevent the enemy from taking their desired action. Non-magical characters do not. Real life people can stop enemies from doing what they want to do, and can protect others by physically preventing them from using a weapon while in combat. D&D non-magical characters can not. They are significantly less than real people when it comes to their capabilities. I'm in favor of shoring up some of the gaps, providing maybe an extra page of rules, so that non-magical characters can have more options in combat beyond 'I attack 3 times' and can close the gap between their capabilities and that of a normal human, to say nothing of a Wizard. If that's "way, way too far into the weeds" for you, so be it. Compared to the 150+ pages total spent on spells in 5e I personally don't think it's much at all though.

I dunno where I've seen it... but I'm sure I've seen a badass swordsman type block an opponent from unsheathing their sword by rushing in close fast enough and pushing against their hands or the pommel of the sword itself...

 

[Undrave]

So I don't get all the handwringing about class balance.

Yes Wizards are all that. They are more powerful than any other class. They are more flexible than any other class and they can be "the best" at any role other than healer.

That is not a problem in games I play though. Despite being the hands down best class some of my parties have no wizards at all, and the ones that have wizards have lots of other fun characters too. I have played parties with 3 fighters. I don't think I have actually played in a party with 3 wizards.

In short I don't see this as a problem that needs to be fixed. If you are overly concerned abotu being "the best" and can't have fun if you aren't by all means play a wizard, but a lot of players simply don't care that there are more powerful builds possible or that their fighter will never be as powerful as a wizard and when you get down to it 5E is so flexible you could play a party full of nothing except Wizards and it would work fine.

In short Wizards are the most powerful class. That is not only ok, it makes for a better game IME.

Because it makes DMing more complicated. Because you don't want the guy who picked Ranger because it sounded cool to ask if he can just switch to a Druid because the character is never doing anything so you have to go out of your way to give focus. You have to keep track of what the Wizard is doing and the spells he has so he can't just obviate large portion of your plot in one fell swoop because you didn't know that... Snarf's Bubble of Bard Butchery (for exemple) was a thing. You have to make sure the players rest at a decent pace so you can actually wittle the Wizard's ressources.

You can't just grab an off the shelf adventure when in a hurry because you're gonna have to adjust it so some dork in a pointy hat doesn't make it boring for the rest of the players. Or you need to adjust it the other way because nobody's playing a full caster and OH LOOK that adventure has a Clay Golem, better make sure they have the ONE SPELL that can solve it's stupid curse! (Yes I'm bitter about that particular one). Or you're running an Adventure League adventure and only the martial types showed up that day and the only thing they have left that can hurt the werewolf is a friggin' silvered dagger and you have to let the Fighter and Ranger do a friggin' jugglin' act with it to even come close to beating a werewolf that can't actually hit them back half the time because the Fighter has Protection as a style.

And as a player it matters because the book LIES to you by presenting all the classes as if they were an equivalent choice and not being honest about the most boring class in the book actually being the strongest.

As a player it gets frustrating that you try to be creative and inventive, but nothing you do is more reliable that 'I attack three times' while the Wizard can just whip out whatever he wants and the DM goes 'sure, it does exactly what you want it to do." just because it's 'magic'.

Sometimes because juste prefer the guy with the sword to the guy with the stick, and it sucks that the game makes you less effective, punishing you for your prefered archetype.

If you like your contribution to be on par with a DMPC Sidekick, be my guest.

 

[Maxperson]

So like... 1 minute outside of a battle? If you prepare in advance it's not that hard to be ready.

That's just it. You need prep time which you typically don't have.

I'd assume they can draw all 6 swords, using their 6 hands, in one go. I mean, I have two hands and I can totally draw 2 weapons at once, it's not outside the real of reality.

The monster can, yes. PCs, though, have different rules and only get one object interaction for free and then it takes an action for the next one. If you have a generous DM willing to help casters be super powerful, then you could get that ruling I think.

the object interaction rules when applies to sheated weapons are weird... there should be an exception for proper sheath since that's basically what they are there for! It should be 1 free unsheathing per free hand.

That wouldn't be a bad house rule, or new rule for 5.5. The dual wielder in my current game pulls both out and then attacks in round one. I'm not going to gimp him out of a round just because he wants to dual wield.

I dunno where I've seen it... but I'm sure I've seen a badass swordsman type block an opponent from unsheathing their sword by rushing in close fast enough and pushing against their hands or the pommel of the sword itself...

That sounds kung fu!

 

[Undrave]

That sounds kung fu!

Might have been in Thunderbolt Fantasy?

That's just it. You need prep time which you typically don't have.

Well, I wouldn't use this Marilith plan without having the time. I'd use something else.