Pathfinder 2E Are you moving from 5E to PF2?

[Markh3rd]

Will PF2e have tons of splatbooks?

The advanced class guide is already planned for Gencon next year.

 

[Haffrung]

With 5E, WotC clearly has a policy of keeping a lid on the amount of player-facing rules crunch to stop (or stop the perception of) complexity creep.

What I don't get is why they've dramatically reduced the amount of DM support content compared with previous editions. Setting guides, adventures, lairs, encounters, NPCs, books on demons, undead, etc. The only reason I can think of is their (IMHO) misguided policy of making all their books besides their campaigns cater to both players and DMs.

Relying on third party publishers to support DMs and help them create content and run games, when DMs are the lynchpins of the whole hobby, seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[Parmandur]

With 5E, WotC clearly has a policy of keeping a lid on the amount of player-facing rules crunch to stop (or stop the perception of) complexity creep.

What I don't get is why they've dramatically reduced the amount of DM support content compared with previous editions. Setting guides, adventures, lairs, encounters, NPCs, books on demons, undead, etc. The only reason I can think of is their (IMHO) misguided policy of making all their books besides their campaigns cater to both players and DMs.

Relying on third party publishers to support DMs and help them create content and run games, when DMs are the lynchpins of the whole hobby, seems like a bad idea to me.

And yet it is the most successful edition to date, and all of their books continue to sell: no 5E book has gone out of print so far, at five years and counting.

 

[Campbell]

So far most of what we are seeing seems to be intricately tied to the setting of Golarion. Much of what we are seeing so far is uncommon, has specific role playing requirements that need to be accomplished on screen, or both. There seems to be a real focus on GMs choosing which options are available in their specific campaign. The new ancestries in the Lost Omens Character Guide are not assumed to be widely available. I am assuming the same will probably be true for some of the content in the Advanced Player's Guide.

This year we have the following announced supplements:

• Lost Omens World Guide. High level overview of the campaign setting. Each region includes generally one archetype and some backgrounds specific to the region. Meant for players and GMs.
• Lost Omens Character Guide. Focuses on detailing cultures player characters can come from and organizations they might be part of. Greatly expands the amount of setting detail on each ancestry. There are 3 new ancestries: hobgoblins, leshy, and lizardfolk. Also new heritages and ancestry feats for existing ancestries. Also includes archetypes that are available to characters who join organizations.
• Lost Omens Gods and Magic. Most of the content is geared towards detailing the Gods and Faiths of Golarion. There are new domains, spells, and feats for divine magic users. There are also GM side tools for curses and blessings provided by deities to their followers. There are also rules for permanent boons provided by deities for acts of service.
• Gamemastery Guide. Advice and guidelines on building NPCs, monsters, adventures, and magic items. 60 Sample NPCs. A large variant rule section that talks you through how to hack the game including variant bonus, feat, and magic item progressions. They really want to show off the modular nature of the game. Variant magic items meant to shake up what players expect from magic items: intelligent items, cursed items, artifacts, item quirks, and relics which scale with your character. Also a bunch of new subsystems you can use for things like duels and chases.
• Advanced Player's Guide. This will be a big book of crunch with four new classes: Oracle, Swashbuckler, Witch, and Investigator. These will undergo play testing starting in October. New Ancestries: Aasimar, Catfolk, Changeling (Hag spawn - not shape changers), Duskwalker, Dhampir, Kobold, Orc. Ratfolk, Tiefling, Tengu. Spells and Archetypes.
• Bestiary 2. More monsters.

I am pretty happy with this release schedule overall, including the shape of content. Much of it is very grounded in the world. Because much of the free floating crunch is packaged in archetypes that you must stick with for at least 3 class feats there is less ability to mix and match freely. I also am very happy that there is explicit support for a GM deciding what to include in their game. I'm really looking forward to the Gamemastery Guide.

I really like that there seems to be a strong emphasis on GM support in the line.

 

[dave2008]

What I don't get is why they've dramatically reduced the amount of DM support content compared with previous editions. Setting guides, adventures, lairs, encounters, NPCs, books on demons, undead, etc. The only reason I can think of is their (IMHO) misguided policy of making all their books besides their campaigns cater to both players and DMs.

Sales. DMs are the smallest group of the fan base (though we buy the most) and we just don't buy enough of the optional/extra material to make their sales / efficiency goals. And clearly it is working as the edition is selling very well. SO you may not understand it and my think it is misguided, but it is working for them.

On a personal note, I've bought five adventures for 5e and will probably buy the next one (Descent into Avernus). In the previous 30 years of buying D&D products I only purchased 3 adventure books. What has been different with 5e? They keep putting the damn monsters I want into the adventure books!

 

[dave2008]

• Gamemastery Guide. Advice and guidelines on building NPCs, monsters, adventures, and magic items. 60 Sample NPCs. A large variant rule section that talks you through how to hack the game including variant bonus, feat, and magic item progressions. They really want to show off the modular nature of the game. Variant magic items meant to shake up what players expect from magic items: intelligent items, cursed items, artifacts, item quirks, and relics which scale with your character. Also a bunch of new subsystems you can use for things like duels and chases.

This is the only one that interest me. I don't care about anything setting specific and I definitely don't want more player options. I have some interest in more monsters ( I always do), but I am really interested in how hackable PF2e is.

 

[CapnZapp]

However, there is a just ton of 3PP support:

I for one try to stay clear of third-party material. My one significant exception: the DM Guild Adepts thing for Tomb of Annihilation. That I looked into.

But only because the timing gave it a stamp of approval, of sorts.

I really don't have the time or energy to dredge thru the dmsg.

A more useful argument is to just grab the bull by its horns:

Flooding the market with content is a way of doing things that probably won't ever come back. 5E has conclusively proven it is not fundamental to D&D succeeding.

Even Paizo seems to go slower this time (even if the release schedule looks positively flooded compared to WotC).

So you or I can lament the slow release of crunch however much we want, it will still only amount to pining for the fjords.

 

[CapnZapp]

I get that people feel this way. But to be honest I just can't fathom needing more content.

I can very easily see it, and I honestly think you can too.

Take the recent launch of PF2 as an example:

Even though our group had just purchased 600+ pages of rules, one of them still immediately lamented the lack of options - he wanted to create a "winter witch" type of character.

As you likely can see: "player's handbooks" only ever come out with robust support for fire spells.

In this case he's hoping Paizo won't take years and years before releasing a supplement with more elemental spells.

So, yeah, I very easily see this.

 

[CapnZapp]

With 5E, WotC clearly has a policy of keeping a lid on the amount of player-facing rules crunch to stop (or stop the perception of) complexity creep.

What I don't get is why they've dramatically reduced the amount of DM support content compared with previous editions.

This is because their arguments are a smokescreen necessitated by their lack of staff. The answer to why there was so little content is that there were only a few writers on staff, a drastic downsizing from previous editions.

Hasbro wanted an edition on the cheap. Their interest lies in keeping the D&D brand floating until they can make products that really take in the money: mainly toys and movies. There likely was a meeting where they seriously considered mothballing the brand after the 4E "experience".

The irony is how successful 5E became.

 

[CapnZapp]

And yet it is the most successful edition to date, and all of their books continue to sell: no 5E book has gone out of print so far, at five years and counting.

Sorry but this reads as "history has proven you wrong so you were wrong".

But people aren't wrong when it comes what they want, and implying it makes you appear smug and condescending.

It's better to simply say we agree with the sentiment but that it likely will never happen (that WotC returns to the publishing strategy of old) since they have zero incentive to do so.

We could point out that a deluge of books didn't work out for AD&D, 3E or 4E.

Still doesn't make it wrong to wish for the steady release of content you became used to as a D&D gamer these, what, three decades straight (pre-2015).