D&D 5E Ariadna, the allmighty druid

[Silvenger]

Howdy, friends!

Eventually, my group managed to meet and test the fifth edition. We've been waiting all summer long for this moment. We already have an unfinished 4E campaign, so we converted our PC's in order to follow the storyline. We just have no patience to end our current campaign and then jump to the fifth. However we don't want to change editions in the middle of a narrow dungeon passage, like animals. Instead, we want to get to a milestone and then jump to the fifth.

[SPOILERS OF HOTDQ AHEAD]
So, while we get there, we decided to test the converted PC's in random encounters with some powerful enemy from the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure, for example, Blagothkus, the mighty cloud giant. Blagothkus is challenge 9 and my group is level 10, but hey, it's just a test, and we compensated the lack of level with three Ambush Drakes.

Then something weird happened.

We rolled for initiative. Ariadna, the druid of our party was the first.

-I cast polymorph- She said.

Ariadna's spell save DC is 17 (8+ Proficiency bonus 4 + Wisdom modifier 5 = 17)
Blagothkus' saving throw for wisdom is +6

So, Blagothkus has to roll 11 or more to success, otherwise he would be polymorphized in, let's say a trout. End of the combat. Final boss defeated in one turn.

So the point is, are we missing something? In our opinion it is not fair to defeat such an important enemy with just a spell which can be cast at level 7 that has 50% of success. I go further, Ariadna can expend two more spell slots and cast polymorph again twice in order to maximize the chances of success. We are almost sure that we were doing something wrong, but what?

I hope you don't get too bored with such a long story. Any idea?

And thanks for reading!

Filraën Fauvir.
Eldritch knight from the Mighty Aarakocra Party.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

Re-read the spell. The only thing it really "does" is give you guys some time to quickly (however long it takes a trout to die of asphyxiation) grab what you can and get the heck out of dodge.

The giant won't die. I'm pretty sure he has more HP than a trout...I'd give the fish, say, 2hp. So, even if you whack it with your greatsword and cleave it in twain...call it, 20hp damage...the cloud-trout drops to -18hp, which instantly cause him to reform into his full cloud giant form and take 18 points of damage.

Bottom line: you can't easily use Polymorph as an "insta-kill" spell...unless the circumstances are just right (say, you are over a bubbling caldera, roiling with hot, liquid magma...then you could drop the cloud-trout into it I guess).

So...final boss defeated in one turn? Nope. Final boss delayed for one turn? Yuppers!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Boarstorm]

Seems about right. What is an epic boss battle for characters of level 7 is a cakewalk for a level 10 party.

 

[Silvenger]

It lasts up to one hour. Time enough to throw the trout (or the turtle) over a cliff, or a chasm, tie it with heavy chains, you know, there are a lot of ideas to get an instant kill when it turns into a monster again. And the difference is only one level. I'm pretty sure my DM won't allow this!

 

[GX.Sigma]

It lasts up to one hour. Time enough to throw the trout (or the turtle) over a cliff, or a chasm, tie it with heavy chains, you know, there are a lot of ideas to get an instant kill when it turns into a monster again.

Just like hold, charm, and illusion spells.

 

[SilverfireSage]

No that's totally correct. However, once that trout is attacked, it reverts back to the giant, as thee damage kills the trout and forces it to revert back to a giant.
its like what my dad always said when I wanted to pick a fight with him at 7 years old: you've got one free shot, better make it good.

 

[Lancelot]

I note that you added 3x ambush drakes to the encounter to buff up the CR. Here's what I would have done as the DM...

1. Druid wins initiative and polymorphs the giant into a trout. PCs celebrate with high-fives!

2. Ambush drakes look puzzled, notice a trout flopping around on the floor, and take a bite out of that tasty fishy treat.

3. Trout takes at least 1 hp of damage, and is immediately returned to angry cloud giant form, with a drake's tooth sticking out of his rear end. He then proceeds to go Barry Bonds on the druid with his club...


Is polymorph a problem? No, I don't think so. It's a high level spell. At 10th level, the party is already 2 levels past the extreme end of what the module is expecting, and adding a few ambush drakes isn't really changing that. So, you're basically saying: "Fireball is way too powerful for the classic 1st-3rd level module B2 - Keep on the Borderlands. I added some more goblins to the fight, but they still all got toasted." It's not just a case of increased damage. Higher level PCs have access to abilities that lower-level creatures and modules just cannot anticipate.

Blagothkus really isn't that tough an opponent for your party. He's a CR 9 creature, facing a 10th level party. He has no Legendary abilities, no lair abilities, few spells, no allies in the fight beyond a handful of low-level drakes. Would you be disappointed if a 2nd level party took out a CR 1 bugbear with a single spell (e.g. sleep)? Same thing.

Finally, as a member of that party, I'd actually feel pretty pumped. The druid dropped a huge opponent with a single spell. That's awesome! We didn't have to play out 14 rounds of slowly whittling it down (and yes, I'm speaking as a 4e fan). That's incredibly memorable - even more so if you polymorphed it into something humorous. Turn it into a canary, and carry it around in a little cage! Sure, that could go very wrong at a later date, but it's cool. D&D is a fun game. Sometimes, the fun can be found in the unexpected defeat of a powerful opponent through trivial means.

But, to quote Han Solo: "Don't get cocky, kid". The next time you run into a boss monster, it might have a couple of Legendary Saves, or Magic Resistance, or a prepared counterspell. At that point, the druid's polymorph isn't really going to help...

 

[Ritorix]

5e combat is essentially rocket tag (fast combat that is over quickly), so that is completely normal.

You do have to look at encounter math a bit. Blag is worth 5k XP. A trio of ambush drakes brings the total to 5300. Against a group of four 10th level characters, that is just a medium encounter.

The game assumes 6 to 8 medium-to-hard encounters in a day. That's 9k XP per 10th level PC per day, or about 7 Blags total. That's a lot of rocket tag, and the PCs won't always get lucky on init rolls. If you bump it up to 2 cloud giants, that's a hard encounter. Then do that all day as you explore a dungeon or whatever, with a boss fight at the end after resources have been drained along the way.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yeah once Blagothkus takes a point of damage he is back to full Cloud Giant strength. Polymorph is good for delaying a single opponent.

 

[Tormyr]

It lasts up to one hour. Time enough to throw the trout (or the turtle) over a cliff, or a chasm, tie it with heavy chains, you know, there are a lot of ideas to get an instant kill when it turns into a monster again. And the difference is only one level. I'm pretty sure my DM won't allow this!

Time enough for the turtle, yes. Trout, no. Trout die within a couple minutes out of water.