Armor and Extended Rest

Gondsman

Explorer
Now i know in 3e there were rules about sleeping in armor, but I can't find any for 4e. The guy running our home campaign seems to think there is one though, and short of waiting for WOTC to tell me, does anyone know offhand where such a rule, if it exists, is to be found?

For my interpretation, it says that light activity is okay during the extended rest, and that's all they say about it, so I figure part of armor training is getting used to sleeping in it.
 

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There are no explicit rules for it in 4e. I would just make a house rule saying if you sleep in your armor, make an Endurance check or wake up with one less healing surge.
 

Add to that: ignore any penalties if you have armored endurance training or are sleeping in anything other than heavy armor.

But, to be honest I wouldn't have any penalties. It's not in 4E.
 

I usually house rule that sleeping in light armour does what blalien said, but sleeping in heavy armour results in no healing surges regained for the extended rest.

I'm mean like that.
 

I've always figured if you happen to crash in your armor now and then, say in a situation where you're really expecting trouble, you can get away with it. If the PCs are wandering around for long periods of time in the wilderness and not ever taking their armor off? Yeah, I'd start hitting them with Endurance checks and docking them a surge for every time they fail. Maybe make them make a save now and then to avoid getting some kind of nasty skin rash (make up a nice disease for this).

Nothing wrong however with decreeing now and then that "this is not a real good place to get much rest, you'll have to take off your armor to get comfortable enough to actually rest."

Of course you know that as soon as you do that the players are fully clued in that they're about to get a special visitation from the DMs nice helpers. I'd be really tempted to make any encounter taking place in that situation be more interesting than "ahah, you get attacked while your AC is too low for me to miss you!" and instead give them some kind of awkward situation where they'd LIKE to fight, but don't dare risk it. So instead they have to negotiate or bend to the wishes of someone or other. No doubt said situation will prove to be infinitely embarrassing and create plenty of moral angst ;)
 

When I was DM'ing the group, we basically made the call that you don't sleep in your armour.. and if you do, then you automatically get docked 1 healing surge, but this only applied to heavy armours. I'm still trying to wrangle some jiggery-pokery about how to balance the inconvienance, so the players don't feel like they *can't* wear heavy armour.

I was tempted to just build in that all Magic Armour would allow you to sleep comfortably in it. Hell, if I was enchanting armour, that would be one of the things I'd go for, as a basic part of the package.

My current DM hasn't really mentioned it.. he tends not to rely on those kind of cliches, very often.
 

It seems to me that the reason the rules don't include a penalty is that such a penalty is neither fun nor balanced. It may be realistic (though I have seen claims by some that one can, in fact, sleep comfortably in armour), but that doesn't balance the equation.

If the party is never going to be ambushed whilst sleeping, then the idea that they take off their armour to sleep can be handwaved away.

If they are, on occasion, going to be ambushed whilst sleeping, after the first time it happens, you might as well automatically impose the penalty on paladins and most fighters. After the first time they get attacked without their heavy armour, assuming they survive, they're probably never going to sleep without it again. If they don't survive, expect the party's replacement defender to be a Warden, who gets to sleep in his light armour and retain all of his AC without penalty.

If they're going to be frequently ambushed whilst sleeping, then either the DM is rather vicious or the party should be much more careful about where they choose to sleep. Whichever the case, they're going to be dealing with the penalties all of the time, because the alternative is worse.

A paladin, for instance, likely goes into battle normally wearing plate and a heavy shield. He likely hasn't put much into dexterity or intelligence, as aside from shoring up what's going to be a hopelessly low Reflex regardless of what he does, the abilities do little for him. It's entirely possible that neither score is higher than 10.

Leaving enhancement bonuses, armour specialization feats, and masterwork armour aside for the moment, a paladin in sleepwear is probably losing 10 points of AC. His powers and class features are all designed to make it more tempting to monsters to attempt to hit him (despite his usually high-end AC). Combining the two makes combat ridiculously lethal for him. No monster will miss him. If he takes the time to grab his shield and spend a standard action (costing him a round of attacking, or an action point) to put it in place, he can gain another 2 AC, but that's still not much help.

If he's an unusually intelligent or dexterous paladin, he may have a bonus that offsets the loss of armour to some small extent. 1 point of AC, maybe 2.

The rest of the party suffers as well. The paladin is more likely to fall in combat than usual, leaving the rest of the party facing more damage and less protection. More healing resources will have to got the paladin's way than usual, leaving less for everyone else.

It only gets worse for heavy armour users the higher you go, once you start factoring in enhancement bonuses, specialization feats, and their reliance on masterwork armour. A level 30 paladin is never going to take off his +6 Godplate. Give up 20+ points of AC? Forget it. Monsters 20 levels below him would have trouble missing.

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I think the best way to handle it, if you want to handle it at all, is to come at it from the opposite direction.

Assume that the rules already take into account the cost of sleeping in armour. Instead of penalizing them for wearing it, reward them if they opt not to.

Grant them extra healing surges (or some other bonus), for having had a more comfortable rest. Then they have the option of continuing to wear their armour, and having the AC and healing surges the rules assume they do, or of risking danger in the night in favour for advantage the next day.
 
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Now i know in 3e there were rules about sleeping in armor, but I can't find any for 4e. The guy running our home campaign seems to think there is one though, and short of waiting for WOTC to tell me, does anyone know offhand where such a rule, if it exists, is to be found?

For my interpretation, it says that light activity is okay during the extended rest, and that's all they say about it, so I figure part of armor training is getting used to sleeping in it.

There are no rules that say you cant swim, sleep, shower or run in armor. The only thing it does say is that any activity in a certain group is subject to a negative modifier on the roll when you wear some kinds of armor.

So if you wanted to penalize your players, which sounds like a good houserule, simply say that whilst wearing armor they are unable to get fully comfortable and will regain all their healing surges (except one)
 

I played nearly an entire level with a paladin wearing no armour and although its difficult its possible to survive. So the odd overnight ambush where someone is not fully equiped wouldn't hurt, assuming the party isn't close to exhausted already and the fight isn't too hard.

I would probably leave it up to the players to decide. If they want to play their character slightly more realistically they might choose to remove armour while not on watch. If they don't care for such stuff then they can sleep in armour. No penalty. If it was me I'd probably remove armour during overland travel and wear it if trying to grab a bit of rest while shored up in a dungeon room overnight.

Having fights when not fully prepared can sometimes be interesting when not over done. Do you carry large weapons in cities or take your adventuring kit when off to a nobles ball etc
 

This comes up, every now and then, and we've had LARPers/SCA people state that they've slept in chainmail, without any negative effects.

From my point of view it's fantasy. Look too closely, and it breaks. Ignore the 'armour issue' and let people do what they please, where it's concerned. If the PC is trained in a specific type of armour, assume that character knows how to do it right. Don't sweat the small stuff.
 

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