enigma5915
Explorer
I know its a bit soon, but I'm curious if anyone's considering running 5th with amor as DR. If so, what are your thoughts about how to do this.
D&D 5E Armor as DR. Is anyone considering this?
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
Before delving in, just FYI, I think the heavy armor feat basically gives you DR 3 against standard attacks. Sort of a nice nod to the idea without a big overhaul.
I like the idea of damage reduction from armor but in most tabletop rpg's that use it game play seems to slow down a bunch. I like the Dragon Age rpg for instance but once characters start using heavy armor it is a grind.
Someone on the WoTC forums during the playtest had what I thought was a good idea for armor.
It was something like this.
Light Armor AC 10+ prof bonus + dex (resistance 13)
Medium Armor AC 12 + prof bonus + dex (max 2) (resistance 15)
Heavy Armor AC 13 + prof bonus (resistance 17)
Resistance value is the natural number on the d20 or higher to do full damage, if it is lower than that number and still hits it does only half damage.
This gave the max AC of the 3 different tiers feel different. Light armor users are harder to hit, but take full damage if you do most of the time, heavy armor users get hit a little more often but take half damage most of the time, medium armor lies in the middle.
Someone on the WoTC forums during the playtest had what I thought was a good idea for armor.
It was something like this.
Light Armor AC 10+ prof bonus + dex (resistance 13)
Medium Armor AC 12 + prof bonus + dex (max 2) (resistance 15)
Heavy Armor AC 13 + prof bonus (resistance 17)
Resistance value is the natural number on the d20 or higher to do full damage, if it is lower than that number and still hits it does only half damage.
This gave the max AC of the 3 different tiers feel different. Light armor users are harder to hit, but take full damage if you do most of the time, heavy armor users get hit a little more often but take half damage most of the time, medium armor lies in the middle.
keterys
First Post
I've tried armor as DR in a lot of systems, and I've generally come to the conclusion that it's a bad idea. Which is a real shame, but there you go.
Earthdawn was the best imo, but it tended to have less attacks than D&D, you could bypass armor with a good attack roll, and damage was less predictable so DR was less of an immediate blocker.
Earthdawn was the best imo, but it tended to have less attacks than D&D, you could bypass armor with a good attack roll, and damage was less predictable so DR was less of an immediate blocker.
Sword of Spirit
Legend
It case it matters to know this--the DMG will almost certainly have an option for this.
(Personally I hate houseruling before I see the official rules option, but not everyone feels that way.)
(Personally I hate houseruling before I see the official rules option, but not everyone feels that way.)
The thing I struggled with on looking at this was that armor does not automatically reduce damage. Sometimes armor absorbs the bulk of the damage and the target is nicked, but sometimes, the weapon slides between chinks in the armor or hits a separate, unprotected spot. I kept it as attack roll determines whether or not the target is hit at all and damage roll tells you whether the armor turned away part of the attack or not.
DreamChaser
Explorer
This requires a pretty hefty adjustment to many of the presumed rules.
AC = hit reduction because HP =/= physical damage in the core rules. When you combine armor as DR with a constantly increasing amount of HP, you frequently end up with combats that grind...anyone with decent armor can last ForEvEr before going down.
This creates a major disparity between the lightly armored fighter and the heavy armor fighter. Let's say the HAF can essentially avoid 25% of all damage dealt: The system in order to avoid penalizing the LAF needs to ensure that the LAF is hit 25% less often.
There is also the conceptual side: If armor is DR...then why aren't HP physical damage? If they are, why do they go up?
I'm not against armor as DR, I just feel it needs to be worked into a system designed with damage as wounds...so the first step would be creating a wound system to replace the core HP system.
Sir Brennen
Legend
I kind of liked the system in Iron Heroes where each armor type gave a die of reduction. So, for example, leather was 1d4, chain 1d6, plate was 1d8. (Made up die values; I don't remember what they were exactly.) The defender simply rolled the die and subtracted the value from the damage (kind of reflecting the variability of armor coverage, as mentioned above.)
Might be too much die rolling for some people, but I think it gives the players a little bit more feeling of agency in their defenses.
DM: "The black knight hits you with his sword. You take 12 points of damage."
Player: (Rolls) "Ha! No, I only take six points!"
Also, the DM can just use the die roll average each time to save on extra rolling behind the screen.
In this type of game I'd let shields remain as a bonus to AC. Of course, then you have to start asking, are things like a monk's Unarmored Defense DR or actual AC boosts?
Things like the flat DR 3 granted by the heavy armor feat could either increase the armor's die type a couple of steps (2d6 instead of d8) or simply let the player roll d8 + d6.
Other than just musing out loud on the boards here, though, I'd probably wait to see what options the DMG might have for this.
Might be too much die rolling for some people, but I think it gives the players a little bit more feeling of agency in their defenses.
DM: "The black knight hits you with his sword. You take 12 points of damage."
Player: (Rolls) "Ha! No, I only take six points!"
Also, the DM can just use the die roll average each time to save on extra rolling behind the screen.
In this type of game I'd let shields remain as a bonus to AC. Of course, then you have to start asking, are things like a monk's Unarmored Defense DR or actual AC boosts?
Things like the flat DR 3 granted by the heavy armor feat could either increase the armor's die type a couple of steps (2d6 instead of d8) or simply let the player roll d8 + d6.
Other than just musing out loud on the boards here, though, I'd probably wait to see what options the DMG might have for this.
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DreamChaser
Explorer
Basic Rules said:
Most "hits" in D&D are not "weapon connects with flesh and/or vital organs" It is how much of your skill, luck, and effort did you have to use to dodge the well placed strike, evade the main blast of the fireball, or the full toxicity of a poison.
As long as this is the definition, armor as (only) DR is problematic. Feat grants some DR, which can reflect extra skill with your armor that you essentially use as temporary hit points on each hit. But really what armor is doing is increasing the chance that you don't even need to work at it by reducing that chance of the enemy getting a decent "hit" that you need to expect "luck, skill, and durability" to keep from killing you. (AC not DR).
Thus my point of working backwards. Armor as only DR needs a from the ground-up overhaul of damage and HP.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
Good points. D&D hit points do not equal flesh damage. They just mean "you're not dead yet." (Let's ignore the greater "damage" done by larger weapons for now.)
So should armor reduce damage instead of avoiding it? Well, that points a little more in the direction of damage=flesh wounds. If hit points were stamina, you'd think that heavy armor would heavily sap your hit points, which wouldn't allow much damage reduction.
Here's the major problem, in D&D 5, with armor-as-DR: you still get a ton of hit points. Which ties in with DreamChaser's earlier comment: DR would make combat take FoReVeR.
So to do it practically, you'd have to eliminate attack rolls, dramatically increase damage, dramatically reduce hit points, or limit DR to 3. Tops.
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