Armor Problems

[Darklone]

Two

 

[GreatLemur]

In D&D 3.x there appear to be only two types of armor:

Chain Shirt (+4 AC, +4 Dex, move 30, small armor check penalty)
Full Plate Amror (+8 AC, +1 Dex, Move 20, large armor check penalty)

Everything else seems wildly suboptimal. For example, a Breatplate gives +1 AC for a reduction in speed of 10 over the Chain shirt. All other medium armors give worse bonuses.

Yeah, the armor stats are extremely weird, when you really look at them. The penalties and bonuses don't progress in the kind of inverse gradients that you'd expect, and a lot of the specific decisions just seem wildly illogical. I reworked a version of the armor stats a while back, but it's for a hypothetical armor-as-DR variant, so it's a bigger change than you're probably looking for.

The designers wanted everyone to be in full plate or light armor; as a result, these armors are mechanically superior, much like the longsword and greatsword.

I seriously cannot imagine why anyone would want this.

I wonder if it wqould make more sense to jsut make the description of the armor "Flavor"? Medium armor is a Breastplate or Mail or Hide or . . .

Really, that might be the best way to go. The armor types in the PHB never fit all the cool, often piecemeal armor a lot of us picture our characters in, anyway, so maybe all we need stats for are Light Armor (mechanically, just a chain shirt), Medium Armor (breastplate, but maybe slightly improved?), and Heavy Armor (full plate, of course), and exactly what that armor looks like is up to you. One guy's medium armor could be full chainmail, another's might be made of giant crustacean shell and leather, and another's might be laquered wooden plates held together with cord. We don't really need stats for every specific type.

 

[Arkhandus]

How about this for a simpler armor and shield variant?

Light Armor:
+3 Armor Class, no maximum Dexterity bonus, -0 armor check penalty, 15% arcane spell failure, 15 pounds, no movement penalties

Medium Armor:
+6 Armor Class, +5 maximum Dexterity bonus, -3 armor check penalty, 30% arcane spell failure, 30 pounds, -10 feet to movement speed

Heavy Armor:
+10 Armor Class, +1 maximum Dexterity bonus, -8 armor check penalty, 50% arcane spell failure, 50 pounds, -15 feet to movement speed, -1x to run speed multiplier, heavy armor violates a druid's oaths if worn unless made from dragonhide or darkwood

Light Shield:
+1 Armor Class, -1 armor check penalty, 10% arcane spell failure, 5 pounds, may use as per a buckler

Heavy Shield:
+3 Armor Class, -2 armor check penalty, 20% arcane spell failure, 15 pounds

Tower Shield:
+6 Armor Class, -8 armor check penalty, 40% arcane spell failure, 35 pounds, -2 on attack rolls while held

 

[Felnar]

my group has swapped when the two move penalties are put in place
medium gets reduced run speed
heavy gets reduced movement rate and reduced run speed
& medium armor gets DR1/- and heavy gets DR2/-
(considering knocking the chain T-shirt down to +3 AC, but granting DR1/-)

i havent dont it yet, but
i've liked the idea of dropping heavy armor prof from all classes, then granting it to paladins at level 3, and granting fighters a bonus feat (at level 3 or 5) to spend on it (or something else if their character is more of a light fighter)

often piecemeal armor a lot of us picture our characters in

all my 2nd edition chars wore piecemail (PO:combat & tactics), like lorica segmata or hide armor with a wood breastplate, plus real heroes dont wear helms

 

[maggot]

I'd go with something like this:

Light Armor: +4 AC, Max Dex +4, 30' speed, Skill Check Penalty -2, Arcane Failure 10%
Medium Armor: +6 AC, Max Dex +2, 25' speed, Skill Check Penalty -4, Arcane Failure 20%
Heavy Armor: +8 AC, Max Dex +0, 20' speed, Skill Check Penalty -6, Arcane Failure 30%

Since druids are limited to natural armor, I might split into natural (below) and non-natural (above).

Natural Light Armor: +2 AC, Max Dex +5, 30' speed, Skill Check Penalty -1, Arcane Failure 5%
Natural Medium Armor: +4 AC, Max Dex +3, 25' speed, Skill Check Penalty -3, Arcane Failure 15%
Natural Heavy Armor: +6 AC, Max Dex +1, 20' speed, Skill Check Penalty -5, Arcane Failure 25%

The only thing that doesn't work in here is the running in heavy armor thing (a rule I often forget). The medium armor speed is a bit odd for 20' base move types, but it comes down to 15' move on a single move and 35' on a full move. Medium armor speed for 40' base is 35'.

 

[Votan]

What about putting in a new penalty for heavy armor and picking up the Breastplate a bit?

Example:

Light +4 AC, +4 Dex, 30 ft move
Medium +6 AC, +3 Dex, 20 ft move
Heavy +8 AC, +2 Dex, 20 ft move, DR 1/-, -2 to hit

This would make the decision between medium and heavy armor actually worth discussing with one being a lot more defensive and the other being a lot better for characters who do offense. Something similar was done for the tower shield and it worked well.

 

[seans23]

For example, a Breatplate gives +1 AC for a reduction in speed of 10 over the Chain shirt. All other medium armors give worse bonuses.

Breastplate and chainmail have the same speed reduction and the same AC. Breastplate has Max Dex of +3 vs +2... is that what you meant?
Breastplate also has a better armor check penalty, and weighs 10 lbs less.

 

[Votan]

Breastplate and chainmail have the same speed reduction and the same AC. Breastplate has Max Dex of +3 vs +2... is that what you meant?
Breastplate also has a better armor check penalty, and weighs 10 lbs less.

No, I was noticing the horrible difference between a Chain Shirt and a Breatplate:

Chain Shirt: AC +4, Max Dex +4, Armor Check Penalty -2, Move (Medium) 30 ft

Breastplate: AC +5, Max Dex +3, Armor Check Penalty -4, Move (Medium) 20 ft

Under these rules, who would ever use a Breastplate (especially given how important a 30 ft move is on the battlemap)?

The fact that lesser armors in a category can be massively inferior is another problem. Chainmail is equal to or inferior to a Breastplate in every way and costs 75% as much.


Armor cost is only an issue at level 1 or 2 given the way that magic is applied (it dies not multiply the cost of the armor but, rather is a fixed addition).

So consider:

+5 Ghost Touch Full Plate = 1500 GP + 150 GP (masterwork) + 64,000 GP (magic) = 65,650 gp

This has AC +13 and mex dex +1 (ACP -5)

+5 Ghost Touch Splint Armor = 200 GP + 150 GP (masterwork) +64,000 GP (magic) = 64,350 GP.

This has AC +11 and mex dex +0 (ACP -6)


This is for a 2% reduction in cost . . .

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I like the idea of trimming the armor list down, but dislike the disappearance of a variety of armor types.

Perhaps have a baseline of the Light, Medium, and Heavy as above.

Then add sub-types along the lines of:
- Natural, this armor is made of hard plant material and uncured hides. It is very plyable but provides less protection. -2 AC, -10% arcane failure, +2 Max dex, -1 Armor Check penalty.

- Flexible, this armor is plyable leather or chain, improving movement at the cost of protection. -1 AC, +1 max dex

- Boiled, this armor stiff, better protection while limiting movement. AC +1, +10% arcane failure, -2 Max Dex, +1 armor check penalty. Run actions are limited to X3 movement {X4 with the 'Run' feat}

- Plate, this armor is extremely rigid, providing better protection while limiting movement. AC +2, +10% arcane failure, +2 armor check penalty, +2 DR/Bludgening. Movement is reduced an additional 10'. Run actions are limited to X3 movement {X4 with the 'Run' feat}


Of course, the base numbers would have to be lowered, probably to +2/+4/+6 in order to have it match up with the Core armor values.

Caveat: Values are pulled out of thin air and need balancing

 

[whydirt]

Another quick and easy fix would be to swap the movement penalties added moving from light to medium and from medium to heavy armor. Players tend to value tactical combat speed over running multipliers.

Original Setup
Light Armor: No Penalty
Medium Armor: Reduced Tactical Movement
Heavy Armor: Reduced Tactical Movement and Running Speeds

New Setup
Light Armor: No Penalty
Medium Armor: Reduced Running Speed
Heavy Armor: Reduced Running Speed and Tactical Movement