Armor Redone [Final Draft v1.1]

[the Jester]

Oh, forgot to mention- I like the DR for heavy armor, it harkens back to 1e. I've considered that too, but how about a special material that provides heavy armor made with it a +1 enhancement bonus to AC and DR 1/-? Make it cheap enough to be palatable and common enough to make it easy to find or get crafted...

Just an alternate thought- I'm a huge fan of adding options (with costs) to the game.

 

[Greybar]

In the main group of pcs, the best two ACs go to the heavy armor-wearing dudes (ACs are 31 and 28), but the tricksy folks can magic it up to much better than that (sometimes low 40's) for short periods.

Some of the 3E lead folks have suggested that it is this "peak" that you should always consider. I can't remember if Monte Cook or Sean K Reynolds was the one to mention that in general a 1/day ability is pretty much as good as a 3/day ability (particularly for a "bad guy")

That said, Jester's Story Hour has certainly shown the wonderful nature of surprising your PCs when they aren't prepped and ready...

John

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Something that seems opposite to your stated goals, Technik, is that I see no reason for anyone to ever wear a Chain Shirt, and the only people who would wear chainmail would be people who can get the mithril and who are concerned with ASF.

 

[Technik4]

Thanks for the input! Anyone is free to use this, I'm mostly doing it to try and get things straight in my head how I feel about armors. I think every armor should have a "role", even if the role is not one intended for PCs. For instance, Padded Armor is the armor of conscripts, peasants, or someone wearing heavy clothes. You may never see a PC wearing it, but it provides a good bottom end for the armor spectrum and has a very high max dex.

The trickiest part for balancing things is if I keep Chain Shirt at +3 AC. The comparison to Studded Leather is inevitable, and by and large studded leather is a better choice. But chain shirt is the only light armor capable of being made out of mithral or adamantine, and both of those modifications are rather cheap. Additionally it provides a good draw to light armor arcane casters (Rog/Wiz, or a straight Wiz who picks up the Light Armor Proficiency). The chainmail is designed more for the Ftr/Wiz, Clr/Wiz, Bard, or any other such combination, providing a better AC (2 better than chain shirt) but a greater weight and necessary proficiency.

I have revised to v1.1, what do you think?

Technik

 

[Azlan]

The trickiest part for balancing things is if I keep Chain Shirt at +3 AC. The comparison to Studded Leather is inevitable, and by and large studded leather is a better choice.

According to your alternate armor stats, studded leather is indeed better than chain shirt... but that should not be so. Chain shirt should provide a better AC bonus and cost a good deal more than studded leather. Chain shirt should also be heavier and more cumbersome than studded leather. Historically and realistically, a shirt of chainmail was a definite step up in protection from studded leather.

I believe the following stats are more historical and realistic, yet still D&D-ish...

- - - - - - - -

LIGHT ARMOR

Quilted Cloth: 5 gps, Max Dex +7, Armor Check -1, Spot/Listen -0, 10 lbs., AC +1.

Soft Leather: 10 gps, Max Dex +8, Armor Check -0, Spot/Listen -0, 10 lbs., AC +1.

Hard Leather (Cuir Boulli): 20 gps, Max Dex +7, Armor Check -1, Spot/Listen -0, 15 lbs, AC +2.

Ringed Quilted: 25 gps, Max Dex +5, Armor Check -2, Spot/Listen -0, 20 lbs, AC +3.

Studded Leather: 50 gps, Max Dex +6, Armor Check -1, Spot/Listen -0, 20 lbs, AC +3.

Chain Shirt: 100 gps, Max Dex +5, Armor Check -2, Spot/Listen -0, 30 lbs, AC +4.

- - - - - - - -

MEDIUM ARMOR

Scale Mail (Scale Hauberk): 125 gps, Max Dex +4, Armor Check -3, Spot/Listen -2, 35 lbs, AC +5.

Chainmail: 150 gps, Max Dex +3, Armor Check -4, 45 lbs, Spot/Listen -3, AC +6.

Breastplate (w/ Bracers and Greeves): 350 gps, Max Dex +4, Armor Check -3, Spot/Listen -2, 40 lbs, AC +6.

Brigandine: 500 gps, Max Dex +3, Armor Check -4, 45 lbs, Spot/Listen -3, AC +7.

- - - - - - - -

HEAVY ARMOR

Splint Mail (Lamellar): 300 gps, Max Dex +2, Armor Check -5, Spot/Listen -3, 55 lbs, AC +7.

Banded Mail: 400 gps, Max Dex +1, Armor Check -6, Spot/Listen -3, 65 lbs, AC +8.

Halfplate (Plate Mail): 600 gps, Max Dex +0, Armor Check -7, Spot/Listen -4, 80 lbs, AC +9.

Full Plate: 1800 gps, Max Dex +1, Armor Check -6, 70 lbs, Spot/Listen -4, AC +10.

- - - - - - - -

BTW: I based these stats using the following reference materials...

M. Balent's "Paladium Book of Weapons & Armor"
G.C. Stone's "Arms and Amor"
GURPS Medieval

You'll notice the above armors are much heavier than the equivalents in 3E D&D, by-the-book. This is much more realistic, and will require characters with good Strengths in order to wear the heavier armors (when combined with their other gear), without going into heavy encumbrance.

The "Spot/Listen" penalties are due to various types of helms, each of which is integral part of the suit of armor.

 

[Planesdragon]

Im looking for help on this system, its a little rough right now. Its purpose is to improve the way armor is handled in 3.0e which unfortunately won't be seeing an improvement in 3.5. These are the "problems" associated with armor:

You forgot one: There are no rules for attacking and damaging armor.

IMC, I assigned each armor type a hardness and "HP per bonus" type. When a suit of armor takes a certain amount of damage, its bonus goes down by 1. (For example, Full Plate is 10/5 : an attack that does at least 11 points of damage can hurt the armor, and for every five points of damage done the armor reduces its value by one.)

 

[handforged]

Total accumulation is now...

Light: 11, 10, 9, 7
Medium: 8, 8, 9, 9
Heavy: 9, 10, 10, 11

Granted that most people wearing padded armor are not going to have a +10 modifier in Dex, but at epic levels, that would be the best bet for a rogue, with no ACP, and the highest AC bonus.

I definietly do not think that Chain Shirt should have the weakest overall possibility. If Chain Shirt provided +4 AC and the price was changed to 100, it would be very similar to Chainmail; only Chainmail would require a higher armor proficiency and provides a better bonus to less dexterous characters. Why buy chainmail when a chain shirt gives the same total bonus? because you don't have to have an 18 in Dex to use it exceptionally well. At high level with stat boosting items, it would not be that big of a deal.

Obviously raising the price that high isn't necessary, but something to think about. I like the changes overall, and will be using them.

I also like Planesdragon's approach to armor damaging, but soft armors would have to have stats like 5/20 or something like that because although they are not as sturdy in their hardness, because they move they function better when slightly damaged and it takes more to disable them. A piece of chainmail with a hole in it still protects very well, everywhere else, but a suit of plate mail with one set of tassets falling off is not only much less protective, it is also quite unbalancing.

~hf

 

[Angcuru]

Granted that most people wearing padded armor are not going to have a +10 modifier in Dex, but at epic levels, that would be the best bet for a rogue, with no ACP, and the highest AC bonus.

ACTUALLY...for an epic rogue the best bet is to go with Armor of the Celestial Battalion. No ACP, Max Dex of +10(i think), and +12 AC, and then there's the other enchantments(which are not relevant to this discussion.)