Armor Taken From The Battlefield

[Greenfield]

It depends on the armor type.

I make chain mail, as a hobby. I also teach people how to make it at the Renaissance Faire.

Chain mail(le) is remarkably elastic. You wouldn't think it to be that way, but it is. It pulls thinner as it pulls longer, so one size really does fit practically everyone.

Hard styles, like breastplates, banded, splint and/or plate are another matter. If a breastplate is an inch too wide for the wearer they get what we call "armor burn": Bruises on their arms where they keep hitting the edges of the armor. You can't take a full swing. A warrior who can't swing in combat is called a corpse.

A breastplate that's an inch too narrow across the chest and shoulders will make it hard to take a full breath. A warrior who can't breathe in combat is also called a corpse.

You can compensate a little for the "too narrow" issue by removing some of the padding (typically sheep skin with the wool still on it), but you'd be reducing the armor's value. If the armor is more than an inch off you really don't want to even try and wear it.

Scale armor is somewhere in between the hard and soft armores. It's typically made by attaching scales together with small rings. Technically, the pattern would be called "Japanese four-in-one", where the hole in the scale is the "one" and the small rings become the "four" that link to nearby scales. But the joining rings are so small that there's relatively limited "stretch" in the knit. (And yes, "knit" is the proper term for chain and scale maille patterns.)

I know commercial ads are against the rules, but I'm doing this as an information source, not a product pitch, so... check out www.cgmaille.com for free tutorials on how to make chain armor and/or jewelry, or www.theringlord.com which sells sample kits and armor making supplies. Also www.chainmaille.com. These last two also have instruction sets (though they charge for them). Even so, I think you can see the back of a piece of scale maille there, so you can see how the scales are interconnected.

Technical stuff aside, there's a reason the rules say you can sleep in a chain shirt with out a problem. They're actually form fitting and fairly comfortable.

 

[Water Bob]

Then, maybe I'll let the dice decide. Use a Search task with a high DC to cover stuff that doesn't fit and armor that is too damaged/gory (leather soaked in blood for days....disease looking for a victim).

Then, roleplay it out, based on the throw's results.

I don't think most of the armor found this way will be in 100% condition. Maybe I'll lower the DR or the hit points of the item.

 

[Stormonu]

If your going to use a Spot/Peception check, you could scale it. Say, DC 15 finds you a partial piece (say, enough to cover one limb) that needs some work before it is usable. DC 20 finds a partial piece that can be worn but gives a -1 penalty to AC/checks until refitted and DC 25 finds an intact, undamaged piece. The total result determines how good/much they salvage. You could also add +2 to +5 per additional pie e they find; if they get, say a 25, they could either find a piece that covers the chest and both arms but needs serious work, or covers the chest and their armor and is mostly workable, or they might salvage a untouched chestplate.

 

[n00bdragon]

The answer in a game of D&D should have nothing to do with realism or historical accuracy and everything to do with "Is that a fun way to play the game?". Unless you're playing some sort of Kingdom Death-ish setting where the players have no raw materials of any sort your fighters should not be scrounging dead hobgoblins for scraps of chainmail. Decent armor should just come with the class.

Now, if you're talking about special magical armors then scrounging them from a defeated foe is a fine way to give them to players, but random loot is such a crummy way of doing things, least of all because you're determining after the fact whether a monster was wearing a certain kind of armor, "How did he die to fireballs if he was wearing this armor of fire immunity?". Just plan ahead of time what sort of armor the monster is wearing and then when it dies make sure it glows or something so the PCs know to loot it.

 

[Water Bob]

If your going to use a Spot/Peception check, you could scale it. Say, DC 15 finds you a partial piece (say, enough to cover one limb) that needs some work before it is usable.

That's what I was thinking: Having a minium DC to find something, then add a piece of armor for every 2 points thrown over that DC.

Thus, if the DC is 15, then a roll of 15-16 gets the player a piece of chest protection. 17-18 gets an arm. 19-20 gets a leg. And so on.

I'll have to work out the correct numbers based on the battlefield.

Maybe a DC 15 gets a piece of damaged armor that can be worn but is not in 100% shape. If a 20 is thrown, then the armor is is good condition will all hit points and DR ratings.

Something like that.

The answer in a game of D&D should have nothing to do with realism or historical accuracy and everything to do with "Is that a fun way to play the game?". Unless you're playing some sort of Kingdom Death-ish setting where the players have no raw materials of any sort your fighters should not be scrounging dead hobgoblins for scraps of chainmail. Decent armor should just come with the class.

The game is the Conan RPG, a d20 3.5 game. Not exactly D&D, but close.

The PCs are barbarians, and so far, besides a few pieces, they've found (and fought) few armored foes.

You don't need armor in this game the way you do in basic D&D. ACs are based on the character's ability to Dodge and Parry blows--not armor. All armor does is soak up damage (not make the AC go up) if the character is hit.

So far, the PCs have been quite viable characters not wearing any armor at all.

 

[Greenfield]

I wasn't trying to insert reality into the fantasy. Sorry if it came across that way. It was more like me explaining why the rules for salvaged armor are the way they are.

That is, fitting non-magical plate armor to the new owner takes time and money. Everything else is presumed to be generic, within size category.

 

[nijineko]

I'm curious. In real life, if a survivor picked over a battlefield of corpses, how likely is it that he'd find some good armor for himself?

I wondering this because, in my game, I've made armor pretty scarce up until this point. They're a group of barbarians, and intricate chain link isn't made in this part of the world. But, now, I'm thinking of making more of it available. They're going to have to take it off the dead.

Now, I realize that a lot of armor on a corpse will be bloodied and soaked with gore and most likely damaged--at least from the killing blow. But, if they find some acceptible armor on a corpse (maybe they guy died from a blow to the head), how likely is it that it will fit the PCs?

Very likely, unless their body sizes are very different?

Your thoughts?

the 3.x version of dark sun is hosted on athas.org and has been decreed official material by wotc.

they have a very handy partial and mixed armor type rules for calculating the AC of piecemeal armor.

might be right about what you are looking for, or at least some good ideas worth reviewing.

iirc, the table and rules are in the ds3r7 pdf file.

 

[Celebrim]

they have a very handy partial and mixed armor type rules for calculating the AC of piecemeal armor.

I haven't seen those and couldn't find them, but my quick and dirty rules on mixed armor types is, "It's padded, hide, or splint depending on what you mainly made it out of."

 

[Water Bob]

the 3.x version of dark sun is hosted on athas.org and has been decreed official material by wotc.

they have a very handy partial and mixed armor type rules for calculating the AC of piecemeal armor.

might be right about what you are looking for, or at least some good ideas worth reviewing.

iirc, the table and rules are in the ds3r7 pdf file.

The Conan RPG has its own set of parial armor rules, so I'll use those. But, I still want to look at what's up on that Dark Sun site. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Ryujin]

It depends on the armor type.

I make chain mail, as a hobby. I also teach people how to make it at the Renaissance Faire.

Chain mail(le) is remarkably elastic. You wouldn't think it to be that way, but it is. It pulls thinner as it pulls longer, so one size really does fit practically everyone.

Hard styles, like breastplates, banded, splint and/or plate are another matter. If a breastplate is an inch too wide for the wearer they get what we call "armor burn": Bruises on their arms where they keep hitting the edges of the armor. You can't take a full swing. A warrior who can't swing in combat is called a corpse.

A breastplate that's an inch too narrow across the chest and shoulders will make it hard to take a full breath. A warrior who can't breathe in combat is also called a corpse.

You can compensate a little for the "too narrow" issue by removing some of the padding (typically sheep skin with the wool still on it), but you'd be reducing the armor's value. If the armor is more than an inch off you really don't want to even try and wear it.

Scale armor is somewhere in between the hard and soft armores. It's typically made by attaching scales together with small rings. Technically, the pattern would be called "Japanese four-in-one", where the hole in the scale is the "one" and the small rings become the "four" that link to nearby scales. But the joining rings are so small that there's relatively limited "stretch" in the knit. (And yes, "knit" is the proper term for chain and scale maille patterns.)

I know commercial ads are against the rules, but I'm doing this as an information source, not a product pitch, so... check out www.cgmaille.com for free tutorials on how to make chain armor and/or jewelry, or www.theringlord.com which sells sample kits and armor making supplies. Also www.chainmaille.com. These last two also have instruction sets (though they charge for them). Even so, I think you can see the back of a piece of scale maille there, so you can see how the scales are interconnected.

Technical stuff aside, there's a reason the rules say you can sleep in a chain shirt with out a problem. They're actually form fitting and fairly comfortable.

I've recently (the last 6 months) started making Chainmail and chain jewellery, much like you. In fact one of my ongoing projects is a 3/8", 12 gauge butted ring suit of aluminum chainmail. I'm not willing to haul the 3x the weight that steel chain would be, so call it "Elven Chain" The chain shirt will weigh in at roughly 30 pounds, when I'm finished. My first significant project was a 3/8", 16 gauge aluminum chain shirt for a friend's 5 year old son. I purchase my materials from The Ring Lord and cut my own brass and aluminum rings.

I agree with you about chain. With the rows of links hanging vertically, it will expand by a remarkable amount. It would be held up at the waist with a leather strap run through the rings or held up with a belt, so that at least some of the weight would be bourne by the hips. Underneath would be a gambeson, aka padded armour, which would help absorb impact, resist chafing and wear, and absorb sweat. Unfortunately it would also absorb blood, making it the one thing that would likely require replacement. As it's generally quilted and padded cloth, this shouldn't really present an issue. It should be relatively easy to put together a set of chain, from various pieces that are undamaged. The sleeves could well be laced on, to make donning the armour easier.

Scale mail might be an even better bet. While people like you and I would make it by joining the scales with appropriate sized rings, historically it was also made by sewing scales to leather or padded jacks. This would make it very easy to scavenge a butt-load of quality scales, then fit them to existing leather armour.

Plate presents issues, since it would more likely be made for specific individuals. If you can afford plate, then you can afford to have it fitted.

There are many scenarios that could result in virtually undamaged armour, but the death of the wearer. Stab between plates and at joins. A femoral artery slash. Mace to the head. Etc., etc., etc..