Armor that reduces damage.

[Darklance]

What about hit points is my questions? In addition to actual damage a creature can withstand, they are supposed to be an abstract representation of luck, skill at dodging blows or absorbing minor blows that really don't do any damage, fate, etc....

Wouldnt the hp system have to be altered or revamped in a system like this?

My plan was actually to lower HP by quite a bit...either 10+con bonus forever or perhaps +1 per level or +3 or 4 with "fitness feat"

 

[Jack Haggerty]

What about hit points is my questions? In addition to actual damage a creature can withstand, they are supposed to be an abstract representation of luck, skill at dodging blows or absorbing minor blows that really don't do any damage, fate, etc....

Wouldnt the hp system have to be altered or revamped in a system like this?

You'd probably want to revamp it. Star Wars uses Wound points, which represent your actual physical health, and Vitality points, which represent the near-misses, dodges and luck. In the Revised Rulebook that uses DR armor, the DR only applies to damage taken to Wound points. In otherwords, it only protects against "actual" hits, not the near-misses.

Don't forget that magic is a powerful equalizer.

And remember that you can apply qualifiers to DRs... Padded Armor, for example, could have a DR of 1/Piercing, or Chain Mail could have DR 5/Budgeoning... Meaning that any type of bludgeoning damage ignores the chain mail armor's DR.

 

[hong]

What is the difference between wanting to have the best damage dealing weapon now and after armor reduces damage?

A greataxe doing 1d12+4 (including Str) is useful in the current setup against an AC 20 guy in plate. So is a rapier doing 1d6+3. If you switch the plate to provide DR 10, notice how the greataxe can still deal damage, but the rapier can't (excluding the possibility of criticals).

You could also deal with massive weapons by giving them a negative to attack bonus to represent its massive awkward size.

There are lots and lots of ways of fixing up these unforeseen quirks. The question is whether it's worth it.

 

[Darklance]

A greataxe doing 1d12+4 (including Str) is useful in the current setup against an AC 20 guy in plate. So is a rapier doing 1d6+3. If you switch the plate to provide DR 10, notice how the greataxe can still deal damage, but the rapier can't (excluding the possibility of criticals).

I was just throwing out arbitrary numbers. Obviously anything that you do would have to be tweaked so the weapons respective effectiveness would remain about the same.

 

[Archangel]

You could try to base it off of the WEG Star Wars attack/damage system -

To hit - d20 + BA + Dex Mod + magic/feats/misc.

To defend - d20 + BA + Dex Mod + magic/feats/misc.

To damage - weapon damage dice + Hit Die type (represents not only toughness to absorb damage but also to dish it out - need something to offset Hit Die resistance) + Str Mod + magic/feats/misc.

To resist damage - Hit Die type + Armor Bonus + Con Mod + Natural Armor/feats/magic/misc.

If damage roll is equal to or greater than the resist roll, consult chart -

0 - 3 = Staggered (character staggered for rest of round and next round, multiple Staggered results only increase the amount of time Staggered until the character has suffered a number of Staggers greater than his Con Mod + 1, at which time he is unconscious for 3d10 minutes - character must rest for a turn to return the number of Staggers he has suffered to 0)
4 - 9 = Fatigued (second time results in Exhausted)
10 - 12 (or third 4 - 9 result) = Disabled
13 - 15 (or second 10 - 12 result) = Unconscious
16 + (or second 13 - 15 result) = Dead

Each of these conditions is covered in the DMG (pgs. 83 - 85).

The ranges can be tailored and such. Healing rates will have to be decided (rest so many days, make Con check, if in this range (11+) improve by one step, if in this range (5 - 10) stay the same, if less than this (< 4) get worse by one step).

Anyway, most of my players were not amiable to a more realistic game and so I did not pursue this too much (I was working on a classless/levelless/hit pointless system that still would be compatable with the D&D books I have - feats, weapon skill (BA), skills, armor prof., saves, attributes, etc. purchaseable with skill points, which are rewarded instead of experience).

I just thought that I would throw that out in case anyone would like to run with it.

Later

 

[Jack Haggerty]

A greataxe doing 1d12+4 (including Str) is useful in the current setup against an AC 20 guy in plate. So is a rapier doing 1d6+3. If you switch the plate to provide DR 10, notice how the greataxe can still deal damage, but the rapier can't (excluding the possibility of criticals).

If he wants "realistic" system, then is there really anything wrong with that? Someone wearing plate might be easier to hit due to the encumbrance, but only the heaviest weapons or the hradest blows will penetrate the armor.

How often do you expect a rapier to penetrate plate armor, unless the tip happens to hit just the right spot (as a critical hit)?

 

[hong]

If he wants "realistic" system, then is there really anything wrong with that? Someone wearing plate might be easier to hit due to the encumbrance, but only the heaviest weapons or the hradest blows will penetrate the armor.

If that's what he wants, then there is, indeed, nothing wrong with that. However, his reaction suggests that it's not quite what he wants.

How often do you expect a rapier to penetrate plate armor, unless the tip happens to hit just the right spot (as a critical hit)?

Never. Historically speaking, rapiers weren't used against plate armour. However, many character concepts in D&D (the nimble thief, the swashbuckler, etc) might use rapiers or other weapons that, realistically speaking, wouldn't be useful in such a situation. If you want to allow these concepts to continue their anachronistic weapon use, then perhaps a less realistic approach is called for.

 

[Archangel]

Also, this forces players to look for weaknesses and make called shots to unarmored portions of their opponents. Or, instead of hacking at a plate armored individual, trip him and hold him down. Net him, tie him up, hit him with large objects from afar, etc.

Combat in standard D&D can easily dissolve into standing toe-to-toe and trading hit points until someone falls.

Later

 

[Victim]

Maybe you didn't scroll down far enough to see it, but there is a House Rules forum at the end of the list.

Not only would this discussion be more appropriate there, but there have been many systems for using armor as DR posted in that forum.