Armour Dilemma: Am I Wrong Here?

[Darkness]

Allow me to clarify what precisely I mean about laxly enforcing armour restrictions in the past.

Ok, that's reasonable enough. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Marshall]

*shrug* Sounds like someone should have invested in Called armor. That's what my plate wearing PC did.

Night attacks suck for heavy armor user's, it's just a reality of the game system.

No. Heavy Armor sucks.

I have to go with the group that thinks the DM screwed up.
You chose to enforce a rule, or just set up a situation that uses that rule, that points out a glaring hole in 3e mechanics.

Heavy Armor has more than enough penalties, for no apparent benefit. If your players choose to nerf themselves by using it, you dont further need to punish them.

Not to mention, You has the whole episode over in 4 minutes!!!
Geez, It still took the US 3 weeks to take Iraq and most mid-evil cities are better defended than that.

 

[Petrosian]

In one of my early games, when the PCs were jumped in the sleepytime, the dwarf got disgruntled and started donning his armor while the others fought.

The party monk after about two rounds of this, ran to stand behind the dwarf, drawing the beasties that were on him over to the dwarf.

After a momentary bought of slack jawed amazement by most everyone, the dwarf decided it was definitely time to fight instead.

It was a priceless moment.

 

[Numion]

Sure, in combat conditions, characters might be able to get to the center of the action in 4-6 rounds, but assuming that, when woken up in the middle of the night they can't take several minutes to get their bearings, grab their gear, put on armor, figure out where the attack is happening, and get there with some sort of coherent plan of action, then we're really departing from what's reasonable and what makes sense...

I'll have to agree here. And so has everyone else who has woken in the middle of the night to the command "ALARM!"

Getting your friggin boots on might take the 4-6 rounds if just woken up .. but I guess that armor might then take even longer.

 

[Tom Cashel]

We just had this situation come up on Saturday. The module states that unless the PCs hide their camp extremely well, the drow send out a raiding party to attack their camp in the night.

I rolled randomly to decide during which watch the assault happened. Once it began, the PCs started waking their companions (one of whom wears full plate, the other hide). Upon realizing that the fight would be over by the time they suited up, the PCs leapt into combat in only their tunics. Huzzah!

They mopped the floor with the drow, and it was a pretty good fight! Especially since the party Wizard tossed a mage armor at the armorless Cleric...

Not every fight happens when the PCs are fully armored, at full hit points, stocked up on spells, etc.

If the PCs have to fight a wandering monster when half the group is wounded, did the DM screw up?

If the party mage refuses to participate in a fight because his spells are depleted, did the DM screw up?

Should the original poster have had his vampire villains attack during the DAY?

I repeat: PCs afraid/unwilling to fight without armor are wusses.

 

[Zappo]

I think fusangite is mostly right. The rules are rules; if the characters wanted to be active 24/7, they'd better get some lighter armor.

However, there are a few considerations to be made. If the characters thought they couldn't survive the fight without their armors, then waiting to wear them is reasonable. One thing is being heroic, one thing is being suicidal. If really the fight was too dangerous then putting them in a situation where they would either miss the fight or lose it was a bad call.

Then again, from what I've read I don't think that this was the case. And verbal abuse is always bad.

 

[mmu1]

We just had this situation come up on Saturday. The module states that unless the PCs hide their camp extremely well, the drow send out a raiding party to attack their camp in the night.

I rolled randomly to decide during which watch the assault happened. Once it began, the PCs started waking their companions (one of whom wears full plate, the other hide). Upon realizing that the fight would be over by the time they suited up, the PCs leapt into combat in only their tunics. Huzzah!

They mopped the floor with the drow, and it was a pretty good fight! Especially since the party Wizard tossed a mage armor at the armorless Cleric...

SPOILER ALERT
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Wiped the floor with them? Which raiding party was this? The first one I sent after my players (Drow warriors, Quth-Maren, Arcane Guard, Drow Cleric) found everyone in the party awake and suited up, but low on spells... They were so freaked out by seeing all those drow warriors (without realizing which level they were) they ran for it, and ended up losing two characters.

 

[MasterLich]

As fer the heavyarmor issue: Is everyone supposed to run around in leather armor with high DEX, just so they can fight? It depends on how you play the charac. Unless my cleric is in town he never leaves his armor off. O a night attack you say. I got a shield and go full defensive and use up my ranged attack spells.

As i say, if the characters KNOW they are fighting Vampires, then why are they sleeping at night?

As fer the people who say heavy armor wearing PCs are wussies, can go piss yourselves. Not everyone enjoys playing dam rogues.

EDIT: My PCs will always fight with or without armor. Just dont expect them to be very useful in anything otherthan keeping himself alive and everyone around himself alive.

 

[Valiantheart]

I can understand the problem from both perspectives.

First, you did effectivley neuter the combat characters in you game by not allowing them to don their armor. What was preventing you from launching this "surprise attack" right before everybody went to bed?

It is an unfortunate fact, but because the way D&D is set up most melee characters are more a sum of their magic items than their abilities. Restriciting that effectively nullified them.

What if the scenario had been reversed and you had some thing that had kept the party from getting 8 hours of sleep for three or four nights in a row and then you sprug the final BBEG battle? Now you have all your primary spell casters who have only 10-20% of their spells available. Do you reprimand them for not grabbing their quarter staffs and rushing into fight vampires who can do the equivalent of 25 points of damage a hit with their energy drain?

Second, the other guy acted like a jerk. He wasnt completely without motive though.

 

[Tom Cashel]

As i say, if the characters KNOW they are fighting Vampires, then why are they sleeping at night?

As fer the people who say heavy armor wearing PCs are wussies, can go piss yourselves. Not everyone enjoys playing dam rogues.

To your first comment, I say: Exactly!

To the second, I said that PCs who are afraid to fight when they get caught without armor are wussies. PCs who equip themselves with heavy armor are just playing smart.

Wiped the floor with them? Which raiding party was this?

The same one, mmu1. It was a good fight (i.e. the PCs felt threatened, and it wasn't too easy), but when the druid saw a whole bunch of drow warriors he dropped a flame strike on them. Since most of them were Common drow, four of them got blown to pieces and the PCs knew they weren't too worrisome, except for the sleep poison. They managed to keep everyone in the party alive and took out all the foes (three common warriors fled).

By the way...PCs who are willing to use the spell Veil and bluff their way into Szith Morcane will do MUCH better than PCs who try to fight everything. CotSQ is not a meatgrinder!