Article on _genuine_ mature themes

[drnuncheon]

I have always wanted to run this campaign, but I have never had the right set of players. Maybe somebody out there does.

The campaign begins in our world, with a collection of unlikely heros. Through the machinations of various persons, they are drawn into a faerie Otherworld in which they engage in various acts of heroism, eventually saving the young queen and becoming Heroes of the Realm.

Sounds like a very typical fantasy story, right? Except it doesn't stop at "happily ever after". The heros return to this world for the second part of the campaign, which is all about how the events have changed them - because you'd better believe that fighting a war in Faerie is going to change you. How are you going to react to an abusive boss when you've stared down an Ogre Lord and slew him in single combat? What happens when nothing in the real world can match what you saw or did in Faerie? Do you reject your experiences, try to forget? Look for a way back?

The third part would be thirty years later, as we see what happened to both the heros and Faerie during the intervening time, as they are called on once again.

J

 

[Monte At Home]

That's a great article. If I was ever going to write a product dealing with mature themes, that's the tack I'd take.

 

[bramadan]

Sorry Monte, but what was BoVD supposed to be ?

 

[S'mon]

Sorry Monte, but what was BoVD supposed to be ?

ROFLMAO!!!!!

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

What a fantastic article. Sums up a lot of what I want from an RPG game these days - a real character that cares about the what's happening in the world.

Characters that don't just wait around to have quests dropped on them, but find out what's going on and decide to do something about it. Characters that act, rather than reacting.

I agree that mature roleplaying isn't about more blood and guts, or demonic possession, or characters that swear their souls to dark powers. Those things can be handled in a mature way, but they can also be handled in a less than mature way. Mature roleplaying is simply about caring about the consequences of your actions.

I've noticed in myself that my style is tending towards "Let anything be possible, but also be fully prepared for the consequences."

Involving story lines where the characters actually make a lasting difference in the world are wonderful because you get the repayment of seeing it happen.

 

[drnuncheon]

Sorry Monte, but what was BoVD supposed to be ?

Just a guess: a book on evil, suitable only for mature readers?

There's a difference between that and a book about "mature themes", despite the best efforts of PR folks to blur the line.

"The Book of Vile Darkness" would, frankly, be a lousy title for a book describing mature themes as discussed in the article.

J

 

[kenjib]

The Kalamar line touches on some of these issues, with it's strong emphasis on motivation, politics, economics, and questions of the vagaries of right and wrong, empire, security versus freedom, slavery, subjugation, and the like all handled in a very naturalistic/relative rather than idealized/simplified manner. As an example, the Villain Design Handbook, for all it's rules problems, has a great discussion regarding the creation of complex and nuanced opponents (not just villains). It's one of the reasons why I like the setting. The article brings up an interesting observation, though, which is that perhaps the setting focused on this and perhaps left out some of the "flash and bang" that would have made it appeal more in totality. It's just a little bit too much Virginia Woolf and not enough Star Wars.

I would like to see more material like this, but I think that attaining the fine balance of mature content and "flash and bang" needed to both preserve this intent and still achieve success in the market is a very difficult feat to pull off well.

 

[kenjib]

All I have to say is this:

www.theriddleofsteel.net

There's a quickstart guide in the web page downloads, too. I'll definitely take a look. It looks interesting so far. Thanks for the link!

 

[The Sigil]

snip

Thanks for the re-post. A truly fascinating read. And a darn good one at that.

--The Sigil

 

[Monte At Home]

Sorry Monte, but what was BoVD supposed to be ?

Glad you asked.

The answer is: A book filled with rules relating to evil characters (primarily NPCs).

The misconceptions of what the Book of Vile Darkness were so far afield that I'm surprised the book did as well as it did (it sold, and continues to sell, I'm told, very well--not that that benefits me in any way, but that's another issue...). I'm pleased that it did well, and am gratified to see it on a lot of DM's lists of favorite supplements.

But I never set out to write a book on mature roleplaying. That wasn't a part of my proposal at all. I proposed a book full of monsters, items, feats, prestige classes, yadda yadda, all geared toward evil characters, for DMs to give to NPCs. And, you'll see that's what indeed I wrote.

There were widespread misconceptions about the book:

1. That it would be some kind of guidebook for mature roleplaying.

2. That it would contain only the most horrible, evil, depraved stuff you could imagine for your game.

However, neither of these misconceptions were really the fault of the consumers.

After I proposed this book, and WotC decided to do it, people at WotC told me to make it really vile and nasty. I said that it would certainly have vile and nasty stuff in it. They said it would have a "for mature audiences" type label on it. I thought that was OK, because some material in it might be offensive to some people. Then, months later, I see the catalog copy and it gives the book this salacious spin, and implies that it will cover a wide variety of mature themes.

I shrug, and write the book I agreed to write.

I turn the book over, and get the feedback that it's not vile enough. I object, fearing the book becoming gratuitious. I'm actually told (really, this happened) to: "add in more sex and violence, but not in a gratuitious way."

So I explain what "gratuitious" means.

The book is then accepted, and kept pretty much intact. WotC added some stuff about torture methods and equipment, but that was it. However, they continue to push the book as being "mature." The book, even before it comes out, causes a huge uproar and upsets many people.

Then the book comes out, and most people calmed down.

But back to those two misconceptions. I set out to create a book on game material for evil characters. Some--but not nearly all--of the material might be offensive to some readers and players. So in that way--and that way only--I would say that the book is for mature gamers. Not because the material is "mature," but because mature people can handle potentially offensive material appropriately. There's absolutely nothing "mature" about the cancer mage, but a mature gamer knows when and when not to add such a thing to his game.

As for the second misconception, clearly (I hope) not all the material in there is as depraved as one could make it. The vast majority, I think, can be added to a D&D game and not even really change the tenor of it. Curses, poisons, death-dealing spells, and so on are part and parcel of the game already. My goal was to create interesting and useful material. Some of it is fairly nasty, but much of it is no more depraved than the assassin or blackguard classes in the DMG.

However, both misconceptions led to some people being disappointed in the book. Either because it wasn't the guide to mature gaming that they wanted, or because it wasn't depraved enough. I feel badly about those disappointments, and I wish the book had been pushed for what it was, rather than what some people apparently wanted it to be.

So, when people talk about an "article on _genuine_ mature themes" (as opposed to what they found in the BoVD, I assume), or claim to write some evil material that is "far more vile" than the BoVD, I never really know how to react, since they play off of what many thought the BoVD was about, but in my mind never was.

Thanks for indulging me.

Edit: Took out some too-harsh comments about WotC.