MichaelSomething
Legend
There's plenty of 4E talk but none of its about artifacts! So how do you feel about them? Love them, hate them, or something in between?
Artifacts!
Storminator
First Post
Artifacts rock. I just gave one of my PCs the Eye of Vecna. 
PS
PS
Dragonblade
Adventurer
I like 4e artifacts. In fact, I think inherent bonuses should be the default rule and most magic items should be rare but powerful and work more like artifacts.
Have some basic properties, and powers, but they grow in strength or new powers are revealed if you grow in concordance with the item's desires and purpose.
Except for special story related artifacts that aren't designed to stick around long term, I would drop the moving on rules.
Have some basic properties, and powers, but they grow in strength or new powers are revealed if you grow in concordance with the item's desires and purpose.
Except for special story related artifacts that aren't designed to stick around long term, I would drop the moving on rules.
MichaelSomething
Legend
Guess I am right about no one wanting to talk about artifacts... There's only been 2 replies so far... I never even used them myself...
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I really like the 4e mechanics, but there's a reason they're not much talked about.
They are basically an optional system that DMs can add to their games if they want, and I don't think a lot of DMs do. They kind of come with a lot of plot-point baggage that most DMs don't seem inclined to add to their games.
I haven't seen 'em used yet, despite being a little tempted to use them in my own games.
They are basically an optional system that DMs can add to their games if they want, and I don't think a lot of DMs do. They kind of come with a lot of plot-point baggage that most DMs don't seem inclined to add to their games.
I haven't seen 'em used yet, despite being a little tempted to use them in my own games.
Will Doyle
Explorer
I love the 4E artifacts. My group's slowly paving their way through the H-E series of adventures, and from H2 onwards I've decided to award 2 artifacts per adventure (these adventures take 3-4 levels each, so they're long). It's worked out really well so far, as they've added some really unique story flavour. Setting artifact goals that tie neatly into published adventures does take some work though.
My general thoughts:
From the official books, so far we've had (SPOILERS):
The Invulnerable Coat of Arnd: Worked really well. I'd recommend having the bonus AP break the normal rules and be playable even if you've already played one during that encounter - even on the same round.
The Orb of Light: I modified this so it could slot into our paladin's sword pommel, empowering it as a weapon as well as an implement. It's a tricky one to use in a published adventure, as you'll have to add a lot of undead if there aren't any in there already. Worth noting that both the Orb and the Invulnerable Coat have "don't flee from combat" concordance loss - which created some hairy situations. In my experience, players will do anything to avoid concordance loss.
The Head of Vyrellis: Very specific to H3, but turned out extremely powerful in the hands of our Feylock. One fun tip: don't make it a gem. I played it as the actual bloodied, severed head of Vyrellis. Something tells me that's what the original writers may have intended, but it probably seemed a little too sick for publication.
The Hand of Vecna: Tricky. Very powerful in the right hands, but the concordance requirements are naturally awkward. It's in my game right now, and I'm thinking I'll have to add a whole load of extra positive and negative conditions, as concordance isn't shifting much. Strange that this AND the Eye were chosen for the DMG, given how loopy they are.
My personal preference at the moment is to design my own, as my campaign's gone quite a way and it's easier to think up things that will fit the story. For what it's worth, here's a couple I made: the Deck of Illusions, and the Rhonic Saddle. They're both a bit more work than usual to manage, but should work in most campaigns.
My general thoughts:
- I'm thinking about ditching the +1d10 concordance per level. I don't see what it really adds, and it can seem weird and arbitrary (especially if the PC is currently annoying the artifact through other actions).
- Let the players know their artifact's goals and basic concordance modifiers, but try to keep its powers mysterious. It's a real shame artifacts don't work so well in the character builder; giving away higher-concordance powers at a glance.
- Roleplay them. It's extra DM baggage to take on, but some form of sentience is the defining aspect of an artifact.
From the official books, so far we've had (SPOILERS):
The Invulnerable Coat of Arnd: Worked really well. I'd recommend having the bonus AP break the normal rules and be playable even if you've already played one during that encounter - even on the same round.
The Orb of Light: I modified this so it could slot into our paladin's sword pommel, empowering it as a weapon as well as an implement. It's a tricky one to use in a published adventure, as you'll have to add a lot of undead if there aren't any in there already. Worth noting that both the Orb and the Invulnerable Coat have "don't flee from combat" concordance loss - which created some hairy situations. In my experience, players will do anything to avoid concordance loss.
The Head of Vyrellis: Very specific to H3, but turned out extremely powerful in the hands of our Feylock. One fun tip: don't make it a gem. I played it as the actual bloodied, severed head of Vyrellis. Something tells me that's what the original writers may have intended, but it probably seemed a little too sick for publication.
The Hand of Vecna: Tricky. Very powerful in the right hands, but the concordance requirements are naturally awkward. It's in my game right now, and I'm thinking I'll have to add a whole load of extra positive and negative conditions, as concordance isn't shifting much. Strange that this AND the Eye were chosen for the DMG, given how loopy they are.
My personal preference at the moment is to design my own, as my campaign's gone quite a way and it's easier to think up things that will fit the story. For what it's worth, here's a couple I made: the Deck of Illusions, and the Rhonic Saddle. They're both a bit more work than usual to manage, but should work in most campaigns.
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
I've always followed Mrs. Weasley's advice. I never trust anything if I can't see where it keeps its brain.
Brad
Brad
Pour
First Post
Artifacts have been a huge part of my game, even in Heroic: fun, flavorful, design friendly, and with a little wiggle room in the balance for story's sake. PCs love their personalities, and artifacts really underline the specific elements of a DM's campaign world infinitely more than normal magic items. I've really enjoyed playing with their design space, as well, elaborating on the ego of some and expanding on the unusual, utility, and even drawbacks of others.
Now that my parties are nearly Epic, many grand plots revolve around artifacts. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but I think designers learned a little something from artifacts and injected that into Mordenkainen items with positive effect.
Now that my parties are nearly Epic, many grand plots revolve around artifacts. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but I think designers learned a little something from artifacts and injected that into Mordenkainen items with positive effect.
I love the artifacts but hate the execution of them.
I've incorporated them in my campaign for the first time and it took all of 2 levels for two of my players to max out satisfaction, and 3 levels for the remaining ones.
The problem is in the mechanics, something which I'd have to majorly houserule to make the item provide greater tension in it's reward and penalty progression. I'd absolutely drop the roll at level gain for favor. I'd also greatly reduce the possible favor increases to trigger no more than once per level for example.
Alternatively spreading out the favors in tiers of 20 instead (fully satisfied at 100 instead of 20) while increasing the penalty scores to compensate could work.
I'd say artifacts are game breaking in terms of how they through off balance, but this is an intentional part of the design. I like the fact that an artifact is pretty much like giving a character a free level or two in terms of their power and effectiveness in combat.
I've incorporated them in my campaign for the first time and it took all of 2 levels for two of my players to max out satisfaction, and 3 levels for the remaining ones.
The problem is in the mechanics, something which I'd have to majorly houserule to make the item provide greater tension in it's reward and penalty progression. I'd absolutely drop the roll at level gain for favor. I'd also greatly reduce the possible favor increases to trigger no more than once per level for example.
Alternatively spreading out the favors in tiers of 20 instead (fully satisfied at 100 instead of 20) while increasing the penalty scores to compensate could work.
I'd say artifacts are game breaking in terms of how they through off balance, but this is an intentional part of the design. I like the fact that an artifact is pretty much like giving a character a free level or two in terms of their power and effectiveness in combat.
Dr_Ruminahui
First Post
I too dislike the "moving on" and "concordance boost for leveling up" rules. That and my campaign is a home brew, which means that I'm not as fond of items with histories tied into established settings.
That said, I have a number of home made artifacts in my campaign that have in-campaign abilities - for example, they have an orb that can basically suck any creature into an extra-dimensional prison. It was designed - and had been used previous to the campaign - to kidnap a god. They've had it for about 10 levels now, though they've only recently learned how to use it.
Another is the cleric's neck slot item (he's a pacifist cleric of the nature goddess) that is an apple sized acorn. If planted in the right place, it will instantly grow to be a red wood sized tree. The tree is also a "tercera" - a home made item type that strengthens a god's attachment to and power in a particular location/plane. Prior to getting this one he had another one, but planted it in a desecrated cathedral to push back the shadowfell - needless to say, said cathedral no longer has a roof.
The above cleric also has another tercera (in the form of a large stone - it was previously sentient and very annoying), though that one is attuned to a far realms god. The cleric plans to reconsecrate it to his goddess, which requires him to carve it into a corner stone with the hammer and chisel of the best 2 stonemasons on this plane, baptise 3 people and birth 7 babies on it, and have it present when a wise old person dies of natural causes (he's trying to use it to empasize the goddess's "civilization" domain).
So, yeah, I love me some artifacts, but preferably ones with "plot" rather than mechanical effects.
That said, I have a number of home made artifacts in my campaign that have in-campaign abilities - for example, they have an orb that can basically suck any creature into an extra-dimensional prison. It was designed - and had been used previous to the campaign - to kidnap a god. They've had it for about 10 levels now, though they've only recently learned how to use it.
Another is the cleric's neck slot item (he's a pacifist cleric of the nature goddess) that is an apple sized acorn. If planted in the right place, it will instantly grow to be a red wood sized tree. The tree is also a "tercera" - a home made item type that strengthens a god's attachment to and power in a particular location/plane. Prior to getting this one he had another one, but planted it in a desecrated cathedral to push back the shadowfell - needless to say, said cathedral no longer has a roof.
The above cleric also has another tercera (in the form of a large stone - it was previously sentient and very annoying), though that one is attuned to a far realms god. The cleric plans to reconsecrate it to his goddess, which requires him to carve it into a corner stone with the hammer and chisel of the best 2 stonemasons on this plane, baptise 3 people and birth 7 babies on it, and have it present when a wise old person dies of natural causes (he's trying to use it to empasize the goddess's "civilization" domain).
So, yeah, I love me some artifacts, but preferably ones with "plot" rather than mechanical effects.
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