D&D 5E Artificer Rogue?

[doctorbadwolf]

OK. Now we're starting to get an idea of what being a Rogue means to you, could you go into a bit more detail about the Artificer mechanics you want?
A simple Arcane Trickster variant with more support-oriented spell list and the adjustment to Mage Hang Legerdemain would seem to fit as a basis.

Well, the main things I'd want for an Inventor Rogue would be 2 infusions at level 3 and another at 9 or 13, proficiency with tinker tools and one other artisan's tools, and possibly a mechanical magic pet familiar. I honestly don't even need a full spellcasting table for such a character, that would just be a bonus. Maybe just a few cantrips and the other stuff, even.

The point would be to have a rogue who creates cool things. A tinker's weapon could be really cool, since we're talking about a rogue, as could some new infusion ideas like a grapple gun, or maybe some magical traps in place of spellcasting.

Any of these things would work. I'm not suggesting all of them. I always end up having to clarify that when I'm listing potential ideas for some reason, even though IMO it should be obvious that if someone is listing potential ideas they aren't building a class in that post.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well, the main things I'd want for an Inventor Rogue would be 2 infusions at level 3 and another at 9 or 13,

That alone seems overpowered compared to what rogue subclasses usually get. Certainty couldn't have spellcasting well.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

That alone seems overpowered compared to what rogue subclasses usually get. Certainty couldn't have spellcasting well.

No, I think that is OK. Artificers get 4 infusions and can infuse 2 items, so having half infusions, with a slightly lower effective artificer level seems OK. Infusions really aren't too powerful at the level the artificer gets them.

Well, the main things I'd want for an Inventor Rogue would be 2 infusions at level 3 and another at 9 or 13, proficiency with tinker tools and one other artisan's tools, and possibly a mechanical magic pet familiar. I honestly don't even need a full spellcasting table for such a character, that would just be a bonus. Maybe just a few cantrips and the other stuff, even.

The point would be to have a rogue who creates cool things. A tinker's weapon could be really cool, since we're talking about a rogue, as could some new infusion ideas like a grapple gun, or maybe some magical traps in place of spellcasting.

Any of these things would work. I'm not suggesting all of them. I always end up having to clarify that when I'm listing potential ideas for some reason, even though IMO it should be obvious that if someone is listing potential ideas they aren't building a class in that post.

How about:
Level 3: Gain proficiency in a set of Artisan's tools, expertise in a set of Artisan's tools, and may treat artisan's tools as skill proficiencies for later class abilities.
Gains 2 infusions available to a level 2 artificer, and can have one infused item in existence.

9th level: Gains 2 more (4 total) infusions available to a level 6 artificer and can have 2 infused items in existence. Gain the Mending cantrip and can cast Detect magic and Identify as rituals.

13th level: Gains 2 more (6 total) available to a level 10 artificer and can have 3 items in existence. Can attune to a total of 4 magic items.

17th level: Gains 2 more (8 total) available to a level 14 artificer and can have 4 items in existence. Can ignore class, race and alignment restrictions to attune to magic items.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No, I think that is OK. Artificers get 4 infusions and can infuse 2 items, so having half infusions, with a slightly lower effective artificer level seems OK. Infusions really aren't too powerful at the level the artificer gets them.

It depends - if you are in a game where magic items are plentiful or can be chosen by the player they make less of a difference. But still, some of them are plenty strong, especially when you compare it to what rogue subclasses get. Rogues are strong core weak subclass types, so there is little room to manoeuvre. If they get half what artificers get they should get half of what rogues get. But the rogues biggest thing is sneak attack and the rules don't let you halve that.

In some games even having a magic weapon at level 3 or a bag of holding make a huge difference.

Personally I would start with an artificer base class and add rogue abilities. Artificers have more in their subclass so that gives a lot more flexibility.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

It depends - if you are in a game where magic items are plentiful or can be chosen by the player they make less of a difference. But still, some of them are plenty strong, especially when you compare it to what rogue subclasses get. Rogues are strong core weak subclass types, so there is little room to manoeuvre. If they get half what artificers get they should get half of what rogues get. But the rogues biggest thing is sneak attack and the rules don't let you halve that.

The artificer class also gets 1/2 spellcasting and other abilities, so the reduced infusions I suggested is not "half what artificers get". I think its reasonably close to 1/3rd spellcasting as per Arcane Trickster.

In some games even having a magic weapon at level 3 or a bag of holding make a huge difference.

Personally I would start with an artificer base class and add rogue abilities. Artificers have more in their subclass so that gives a lot more flexibility.

Doctorbadwolf specifically called out rogue class abilities as things they wanted, so I went with rogue subclass. I think my suggestion covers most of what they said they wanted.

Having a magic weapon or a bag of holding at level 3 shouldn't imbalance anything, and unless the party is almost exclusively fighting resistant enemies, it is probably less of a combat boost than some other rogue subclasses.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Having a magic weapon or a bag of holding at level 3

I think we have established previously that you only have experience of what I would consider high magic games.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I think we have established previously that you only have experience of what I would consider high magic games.

Can you clarify please?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Can you clarify please?

I would consider high magic a game one in which the fighter finds or buys a magic weapon better than a dagger before level 5.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Infusions are a class ability. Would you consider a game in which Pact of the Blade Warlocks exist to automatically be high magic?
How about spells that enchant or create magical weapons?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Infusions are a class ability. Would you consider a game in which Pact of the Blade Warlocks exist to automatically be high magic?
How about spells that enchant or create magical weapons?

No, I specifically said "found or bought" - i.e. for free.