Artificer's Bonus Feats

[Slaved]

I would prefer for it to state the Rule directly. Otherwise it is Ambiguous.

I am leaning towards following the Bonus Feat Precedent of not requiring Prerequisites. Would this post a Balance Problem for any of the Options?

 

[Folly]

I agree with Hyp. His conclusions are sound. But to further the support for the bonus feats requiring the pre-reqs, if I remember correctly the artificer bonus feat list has feat chains in it. Thus it implies (but does not confirm) that the writers intention was that you would need the lesser feats to get the greater feats, since generally the feats at the end of a chain are better than the ones at the beginning.

 

[Slaved]

Using the phrase Feat Chains makes it sound like there are feats that build on one another. This is not the case. All of the Prerequisites for the Feats will be granted by the Class automatically with enough Levels in the Class and none of them are Greater Versions of a Lesser Feat.

The List of Feats in its entirety is Attune Magic Weapon, Craft Construct, Exceptional Artisan, Extra Rings, Extraordinary Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Wand Mastery.

At Level 4 the Artificer already has Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Homunculus.

An Artificer does not actually have a Caster Level and so is unable to qualify for Attune Magic Weapon, Extra Rings, or Wand Mastery without Levels in a different Class.

 

[moritheil]

No, it's pretty clear they must, given the lack of a rule that they do not need to meet them.

Yeah, Art and Hyp are simply debating the degree to which it is clear.

Incidentally, do you think that "bonus feats" should have been "racial bonus feats" in that Monsters section?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Incidentally, do you think that "bonus feats" should have been "racial bonus feats" in that Monsters section?

Yup... the phrase is used elsewhere (in the text of Polymorph, for example), and it seems likely that what the two sections refer to is the same thing, but there is more out there described as 'bonus feats' than just racial bonus feats.

Which is the source of the ambiguity Artoomis is claiming doesn't exist.

-Hyp.

 

[Slaved]

An Artificer does not actually have a Caster Level and so is unable to qualify for Attune Magic Weapon, Extra Rings, or Wand Mastery without Levels in a different Class.

Does this modify anyones thoughts on this Topic? Did I miss something in the Artificer Class Description that nullifies this Problem?

 

[moritheil]

Does this modify anyones thoughts on this Topic? Did I miss something in the Artificer Class Description that nullifies this Problem?

Doesn't he have a caster level for his infusions?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

RAW aside, in games that I run, I use the following guideline...

When a bonus feat granted is specified (i.e. the artificer gains Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level), then prerequisites do not have to be met before the feat can be taken.

When a bonus feat is a choice (i.e. the artificer's 4th level bonus feat, which must be chosen from a list), then the prerequisite does need to be met before the feat can be taken.

This is, of course, overruled by any specific circumstance where a choice of feats can be made and the prerequisite does not need to be met (i.e. the ranger's Combat Style class abilities).

Later
silver

 

[Slaved]

Doesn't he have a caster level for his infusions?

The only direct Caster Level Examples that I see in the Class are for Magic Item Creation.

The Artificer is not a Spellcaster. Under Infusions there is a mention that even though the Artificer is not a Spellcaster they can take Craft Alchemy.

 

[jaelis]

I don't see any good reason to think an artificer doesn't have a caster level equal to his class level. It doesn't say that he does, but neither does the wizard class description. It says he is not a spellcaster, but it also says that infusions function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells. I would have said the caster level mechanism was part of those rules.

I am leaning towards following the Bonus Feat Precedent of not requiring Prerequisites. Would this post a Balance Problem for any of the Options?

Attune Magic Weapon - normally level 5, you could get it at level 4. Doesn't seem too bad.

Craft Construct - normally level 5 (due to arms and armor prereq), you get at level 4. Not too bad.

Exceptional Artisan - no significant prereq, no problem

Extra Rings - normally level 12, you get at level 4. Sounds bad, but you probably wont be able to afford more than two rings until you're getting close to level 12 anyway. (Unless they are really wussy rings like featherfall etc, but then who cares?)

Extraordinary Artisan - no significant prereq, no problem

Legendary Artisan - no significant prereq, no problem

Wand Mastery - normally level 9, you could get at level 4. This one seems like the worst to me... the feat is (IMO) meant to make wands useful into higher levels, and risks making them broken at lower levels. Letting a 4th level character upgrade their wand of fireball from CL 5 to CL 7 and upping the save DC seems bad.


So of all of them, I'd say only Wand Mastery raises flags with me.