jasamcarl said:
I was harsh and I apologize to everyone involved, especially die kluge. I did think, though, that his estimation of the original system was itself overly harsh.
....I was going to elaborate on my earlier statement. But suffice it to say, point systems offer a good starting point, but its impossible to model everything that goes into inplay balance in anything like a simple system. That is why playtesting is neccessary and why the DMG prices (thankfully) don't fully conform to the guidlines layed out there. Calling them 'Guidlines' as oppossed to rules would be more appropriate...anywho...
Our system isn't perfect. Take this item for example:
"Jaron’s Everfull Sack of Roses – Jaron Evermere, a famous Elven Bard and ladies’ man of some repute, was known for always having a rose ready for his favored lady of the moment. Jaron
would kiss her hand, and then from his coat pocket produce a single red rose of the finest quality. Speculation abounded as to where Jaron acquired these charming tokens, which he reliably produced even out of season. It wasn’t until after a jealous boyfriend slew the charismatic rogue that Jaron’s true secret was
learned. Jaron possessed a magical sack from which he could pull a fresh, vibrant rose. He never ran out of roses… just luck. The sack produces one long-stemmed, thornless rose up to a rate of 1 per hour. The roses remain fresh for seven days. Rose color and variety determined by the wielder of the sack.
SS: Five 4th level spell slots (+11 slots unlimited-use 1 hour/level spell (minor creation), -2 slots per time-frame limitation, -8 slots extremely low utility, +4 two levels of increased duration);
Market Price: 5,000gp, Creation Cost: 2,500gp.
Now, an item like this, that is unlimited-use (well, hourly) of a 4th level spell might ordinarily be extremely expensive, and rightfully so if the 4th level spell is Stoneskin. But the only thing this item does it creates a rose. We had to arbitrarily apply a -8 slot cost for "extremely low utility". So, because a spell to create a rose is the same level as stoneskin, the logic doesn't always work out right in terms of game balance. So, there still has to be some subjectivity involved. But most players don't *want* to create bags that create roses, anyway. This is obviously just a role-playing, flavor magic item. Most players *want* the items that grant them stoneskin. And the rules are in place to do that without any arbitration.
Make no mistake, however. I *do* hate the DMG magic item creation system, and on top of that, I *really* hate having to spend XP costs for item creation. In fact, some of that showed up in my writing, and the editor had to tone it down. One of the playtesters commented "man, this guy really hates the DMG's item creation system, doesn't he?"
Not all of us have time to playtest the costs of magic items out, and find out after it is far too late that the item our player deviously crafted was far too powerful than what he spent for it. Save yourself that headache.
