Ashamed of being a Gamer?

[Cor Azer]

A "healthy" relationship can definitely include deception. It often does. Many valued parts of society favor this sort of "healthy deception", including tact, pleasantries, feigning interest, etc.

I'm no moderator, but can we please not say that someone's significant other doesn't love them based on one thing? That seems wildly inappropriate and incredibly simplistic compared to the complexity that is Love.

There's a difference between tact, white lies, and blatant lying about activities being partaken.

That said, I would never say there wasn't love in the relationship, just that it wasn't healthy. It also doesn't mean that the relationship can't ever work. It's just not on solid ground, in my mind, and it means those involved may be looking at a lot of work to repair it should the deceptions ever come to light.

 

[thedungeondelver]

To the OP:

I'm 42 years old, I've got two kids, a car payment and a mortgage. I don't go out drinking and whoring around on Friday nights, I don't go blow half my wife's paycheck at the dog track, and I don't throw everyone out of the house so I can watch football all Sunday from September to January and baseball all Saturday from March to September. I run three miles a day, I cook, I chauffeur the kids around and I look after my mom when I can.

I do not give a mother what people think about the fact that once a week I pretend to be an elf. If they ask me what I do to unwind, I tell them. If they give me the gimlet eye when I do, 'em. They asked. Next Great Outdoorsman or Sportsman you meet tells you that he golfs or plays basketball for a few hours every Saturday, ask them if their spouse and children come along and join in too.

Yeah.

Now get off my lawn.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7X2_V60YK8]Get off my lawn - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That is a lot of smileyfacin'.

 

[BriarMonkey]

I have to say I am not ashamed, nor harbor any fears or other daemons where my hobbies are concerned. While I don't go running on and on at random about my gaming, if asked I'm open about it and share my enjoyment of the hobby with others.

Then too, I also enjoy cooking and consider myself a neophyte oenophile, so if asked, there too I'll share about those endevours.

Gaming is like any other hobby, some people get it, some don't.

To think that there is some shame attached, I think, speaks more to the individual than to the hobby. Some people are very cloistered when it comes to things that matter to them, and they are uncomfortable talking to others about it. It really is no different if you are talking gaming or taxidermy or if you are a closet blacksmith.

 

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

I have been reading the forums on and off for years but wanted to register to weigh in on the main topic.

I would love to say I am not ashamed of being a gamer, but I have evidence to the contrary. If I happen to find other gamers there is a general outpouring of all the gamerdom I hold inside. Video games is a little different, but I still keep most of that to myself unless online.

I actually got to thinking about this about a month ago. I had a visitor in my home that was here for somebody else. This guy happened to be a police officer which I am still trying to figure out if that had any impact on what happened. I have a couple of bookshelves in my living room with boxes of miniatures on a couple of shelves. There was also a folding table out with the full set of Games Workshop paints and some paints from Reaper and Vallejo with a couple of Apple Barrel colours as well as two pallets and a couple dozen miniatures sitting there in various stages of being painted.

This guy was looking for a topic for small talk and piped up with, "Oh! Do you paint miniatures?"

My immediate response was to look him in the eye and emphatically state, "No."

Yes, it was ridiculous, but it got me thinking. Well, it got me thinking after I finished making up excuses such as telling myself I really meant, "No, but I wish I did."

As a kid, I was not allowed to read fantasy novels. I did of course, but not where I could get caught by my parents. My first experience with any sort of roleplaying game was selling off portions of my school lunch to save up money that my mother wouldn't know about and buying a big D&D book off a friend. I don't remember what edition it was, but it had monks in it. Later when I joined my first roleplay group I was disappointed that none of the rulebooks they had for AD&D 2nd edition had rules for monks which is why that point sticks in my mind. I read that book cover to cover and even smuggled it back and forth between home and school even though I was being searched daily.

It was worse when I lived with my father for a bit. There was quite a bit religious intolerance. They thought they were doing what was in my best interest, but it helped encourage me to push things down farther. I would have rather been caught alone with pornographic material or drinking the blood of a chicken in either house than be caught with a roleplaying book. For some reason those things were a lot more acceptable and I think some of that worked its way into my subconscious into adulthood.

A few years ago I went on vacation to see my father and his father for my grandfather's ninety sixth birthday. While there I checked out a local game store without family even though at the time I thought it was just because that was when was most convenient to do so. I picked up a couple of things and dropped them off where I was staying. My father comes by and stays for a bit and there is the stuff I purchased. He kind of looks at it for a bit then gives me that look. It took all I had not to mutter, "It's not mine. I'm holding it for a friend."

The really weird part here is my father is a gamer of sorts. Before I was born he would supplement his income playing chess. He kept books on the game in his car so he could read if out somewhere. He wasn't a professional or anything, but apparently at that time there were places in Southern California where amateurs could go to play games of chess where money was involved. He surfed and did a lot of drugs as well which I guess balances out the weirdness factor for him. Now he plays those Facebook games and is constantly sending me requests. Even with that I still can't even begin to talk with him about games.

I'm not sure if I am a closet gamer or if it is an issue with hiding my gaming habits from authority figures as it has always been authority figures that the issue has come up with. I didn't think I was the only one with this problem, but it is nice how I can be open about it even if it is as a faceless person with people I don't know.

 

[Elf Witch]

You pass judgement too quickly, with too little information. How about you leave some room for the possibility that the guy on the scene knows how to manage things better than you do, when you've heard a few mere sentences about a years-long relationship?

As described, the marriage is not "built on lies". The marriage includes some lies. There's a difference. While it isn't a great thing that he feels he has to hide a harmless leisure activity from his wife, it can be okay for partners to have some privacy.

Remember that radical honesty doesn't work either. Humans typically require some management of information in order to get along well. He may draw the line somewhere you or I might not. But then, he isn't us, and his relationship isn't ours. It is not wise for us to judge on such tiny amounts of information.

No I don't pass judgement to quickly. I have lived this and I know what it does to a marriage when there are lies.

I am not talking about brutal total honesty. I am talking about choosing to lie on a regular basis.

The OP says they get together 3 to 5 times a week to play either poker or DnD so they are lying to their wives every week.

If they feel that they can't be honest to their wives about a hobby and choose to take the easy way out and lie about it on a regular basis it makes you wonder what else they feel the need to lie about.

And lying about it is an easy way out. Marriage takes work and open communication as well as accepting your spouse for their good things and their flaws.

First they are not giving their wives a chance to be accepting they are just choosing to lie not to rock the boat.

And if their wives would be angry about this and stop respecting them then I have to wonder just how good a marriage this is that a simple hobby would make a wife stop respecting her husband.

One of the biggest mistakes people make when they start dating someone is to try and hide anything that might be a turn off. And while yes you should put your best foot forward, if the relationship is going to grow deeper it means sharing yourself with that person. And if you share and they can't accept you for the entire person you are then that is a huge neon flashing sign that you don't belong together no matter how much you love each other.


I can tell you from experience that once you find out that someone has been lying to you and to does not matter if it is a spouse, friend, boss, coworker or child you start wondering what else they have been lying about and you find it hard to trust them.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd like to ask that we don't send this thread off on a major tangent, please.

 

[Elf Witch]

I am very, very close with three different women. I definitely love these women, and I think some of the habits of them are unhealthy or destructive. One often lies to me about her activities (she's terrible at hiding it... Facebook, etc.), but only because she does not wish to disappoint me. It's been that way since we've known each other.

I can reject her habits without rejecting her. I very much accept and support her. I can be disappointed when she tells me things I find unhealthy or self-destructive, or when I find out about them, but that doesn't in any way mean my love for her wanes.

In my view, the same can easily apply to the wife of Water Bob's friend. She might be disappointed, because she finds the hobby unhealthy for a 46 year old man and father of two, and that disappointment might best be sidestepped, rather than dealt with.

A "healthy" relationship can definitely include deception. It often does. Many valued parts of society favor this sort of "healthy deception", including tact, pleasantries, feigning interest, etc.

I'm no moderator, but can we please not say that someone's significant other doesn't love them based on one thing? That seems wildly inappropriate and incredibly simplistic compared to the complexity that is Love.


Right on.

When I said that they don't love that person what I meant was this. They love an idealized version of that person not the person as they really are.

In your case you love a woman who has some issues she does destructive things and then lies to you to hide it. You know this about her and yet you still love her.

I don't see anything inappropriate about saying what you think on a subject someone else has brought up. And you betcha I know love is not simplistic not by a long shot. Which is why I find it incredible that someone would really be so scared that they would lose their wives respect over playing DnD.

It is not like he is hiding being addicted to porn, drugs, gambling or another woman.

I was talking to a a friend of mine today who has been a marriage councilor for about 34 years and I asked his opinion on this. I am babysitting their dog this weekend so they took me to lunch as a thank you and I was curious what he would say about it.

And what he said was that while little white lies can be necessary in marriage out right lying and on a regular basis can do a lot of harm. First of all the person who feels forced to lie (even if this is not really true) is going to carry guilt over it. Guilt can lead to resentment which can manifest in other areas. Now if that happens and it manifests in other areas it can't be dealt with because the real reason of the resentment the lie is not being dealt with.

The spouse lying can also begin to resent the person they are lying to for making them feel they have to lie. IE losing respect if their wife found out.

He also pointed out the very real danger if the wife finds out. That the fact that they have been lied to can lead to a lost of faith and trust in that person.

He said that everyone wants to look good in the eyes pf the person they love. But lying to accomplish that puts doubt in the mind of the person lying. My wife says she loves me and respects me but if she found out this about me she would stop. This can lead to self doubt about that love and just how strong it really is.

In his long practice he has seen many marriages survive and grow stronger after a secret has come out and some of these secrets have been far worse than playing DnD. He has also seen marriages destroyed by secrets. The ones that didn't make it usually had far more cracks and things wrong with it then just the secret.

The secret to a long healthy marriage is in his opinion is open communication, loving the whole person not an idolized version of them, and trust.

 

[Water Bob]

You pass judgement too quickly, with too little information. How about you leave some room for the possibility that the guy on the scene knows how to manage things better than you do, when you've heard a few mere sentences about a years-long relationship?

Thank you. I was about to say something similar, but I didn't want to fire this aspect of the disucssion.

No I don't pass judgement to quickly. I have lived this and I know what it does to a marriage when there are lies.

With regard to my friend (really, both friends--there are two in my gaming group who don't tell their wives and lie about playing), you haven't got a clue about their situation.

For example, you don't know that, when they first got married, he did tell his wife he gamed and was in the open about it for a while. Then, when he started having kids, he stopped gaming for some years. It was then, when she thought it was over, that his wife told him what she thought of his geeky gaming. She said he was a father now and needed to "grow up" a bit. Right or wrong, he agreed. Years past. He heard stories from our games and wanted to play.

So, that's how he got to where he is today.

My other friend, that lies to his wife, is on his second wife. He told his first wife that he gamed, and she would take opportunities to make fun of him and his gaming in front of company and what not. His other friends, besides me (all jock types he's known since high school), would crack jokes here an there--especially if they found some media that made fun of gamers (like you'll see in TV sitcoms sometimes).

So, when he got re-married, he vowed that this one would never know that he's a gamer. He got burned the first time around, and he basically thinks he's protecting himself.

As for me and one other in my group, we probably wouldn't tell SO's. I have, and he has, in the past. I lived with this chick for several years, and she knew, but I could always tell it was an aspect of me that she didn't respect. She sure has heck wouldn't tell her friends about it.

The other friend like me was teased by his ex-wife when they were married. "Going off to play your geeky game?" She'd say when he left for a session. And, "Did you kill any DRAAAGGGONNNS?" she'd remark when he returned.

Behavior and experiences like that do not encourage telling the world about being a gamer.

Here, I've written just a tid bit about these peoples' lives, but it's enough to show you that you have no clue about them and their relationships--and that includes the others that have piped in with comments about my friend's marriage.

I'd like to ask that we don't send this thread off on a major tangent, please.

Yes, please.

 

[Elf Witch]

I have a question to those of you who feel the need to hide your gaming.

If you are ashamed or embarrassed why do you still play? I am a little confused why you would want a hobby that makes you feel this way.

Is it really shame or more the desire not to deal with other people's issues about it?