Assassin Spell Failure and Sword of Subtlety

[Pinotage]

The description for the assassin states that it casts spells just like a bard does. Under armor and arcane spell failure, it states that bards can cast spells in light armor without suffering arcane spell failure chances. Does this apply to assassin as well, i.e. can they cast spells in light armor?

Edit: Another question. The Sword of Subtlety says that it gives +4 attack and damage when making a sneak attack. Presumably it applies to all circumstances where you deal sneak attack damage such as flanking? Is the +4 bonus in addition or instead of the +1 from the actual blade

Pinotage

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I believe that, when they say "Casts spells like a bard," they mean "Spontaneously, without arcane spell failure in light armor."

In short, everything that is present in the Spells block in the Bard class description regarding spell casting except:

1) "Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music)." This deals specifically with bard spells, and therefore does not apply to assassin spells.
2) "Charisma": Assassins use Intelligence as their casting ability.

I do not believe it to include the limitations on the Silent Spell feat - "Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat." - because, again, this applies only to bard spells.

EDIT:

Regarding the Sword of Subtlety ...

Sword of Subtlety: A +1 short sword with a thin, dull gray blade, this weapon provides a +4 bonus on its wielder’s attack and damage rolls when he is making a sneak attack with it.

Moderate illusion; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, blur; Price 22,310 gp; Cost 11,155 gp + 892 XP.

It's a +1 short sword (so +1 Enhancement bonus normally), which provides a +4 unnamed bonus during particular circumstances.

It stacks with the +1 bonus, then, and applies to all sneak attacks.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

So it does +5, then?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So it does +5, then?

Yep, barring errata to the contrary.

 

[Geoff Watson]

The description for the assassin states that it casts spells just like a bard does. Under armor and arcane spell failure, it states that bards can cast spells in light armor without suffering arcane spell failure chances. Does this apply to assassin as well, i.e. can they cast spells in light armor?

Pinotage

No. 'Like a bard' means spontaneously.

Unfortunately, if you try to manipulate the rules so you get armoured casting (just take the feat), you also are stuck with having to sing your spells (like a bard). Most assassins wouldn't want to be forced to sing.

Geoff.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No. 'Like a bard' means spontaneously.

I'm counting down to the first "Clerics and druids cast spontaneously; sorcerers and bards cast without preparation" response

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No. 'Like a bard' means spontaneously.

Unfortunately, if you try to manipulate the rules so you get armoured casting (just take the feat), you also are stuck with having to sing your spells (like a bard). Most assassins wouldn't want to be forced to sing.

Except that's not true.

Read the description again. The limitation on verbal components is an aspect of bard spells - not bard spellcasting.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm counting down to the first "Clerics and druids cast spontaneously; sorcerers and bards cast without preparation" response

-Hyp.

Every time I read spontaneously in this context a little part of me dies inside.

But, I fear I shall not convert anyone. Besides, I don't want to derail the thread. Maybe I should add it to my sig.

 

[RigaMortus2]

No. 'Like a bard' means spontaneously.

Unfortunately, if you try to manipulate the rules so you get armoured casting (just take the feat), you also are stuck with having to sing your spells (like a bard). Most assassins wouldn't want to be forced to sing.

Geoff.

If that is truely what they meant, then I think they would have referenced the Sorcerer, not the Bard. I mean, you never see a PrC that says "casts spells as a Paladin", do you? [That was rhetorical, incase someone actually finds a hidden PrC that DOES reference a Paladin]. They always reference the major spellcaster types such as Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer and Wizard.

Edit: BTW... Clerics and Druid's "spontaneously" cast... Sorcerers and Bard's "cast on the fly".

Edit2: The fly saves, and takes half damage

 

[Deset Gled]

I believe that, when they say "Casts spells like a bard," they mean "Spontaneously, without arcane spell failure in light armor."

No, assassins cannot cast in armor without ASF penalties. The ability to cast arcane spells with ASF in light armor is actualy part of a bard's armor proficiency, not part of the bard's spellcasting ability.

Edit: For completeness, here's the game text (wan't at home for the last post):

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Bards are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a bard wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass bard still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Note that this is the only place in the bard description where the bard's ability to cast in armor is mentioned, and that it is listed under Weapon and Armor Proficiency, not Spells. So even if you want to try to rule that all other parts of bardic casting transfer to the assassin, such as sound components and spells known, the ability to cast in armor would not transfer.