Assassin Spell Failure and Sword of Subtlety

[Deset Gled]

Bump for bumping's sake.

 

[Pinotage]

Hmmm, still no definite answer. My opinion is that there are 4 arcane casters in core D&D. Sorcerors and Wizards have no armor proficiencies, Bards have Light Armor Proficiency but can cast in their armor, while Assassins have Light Armor Proficiency. It seems odd to give a class a proficiency if it's going to impede their spellcasting. Assassins actually have a bunch of really nice spells worth casting, so I find it strange that it would impede them. I'm leaning towards no ASF.

Pinotage

 

[Kae'Yoss]

No. 'Like a bard' means spontaneously.

Unfortunately, if you try to manipulate the rules so you get armoured casting (just take the feat), you also are stuck with having to sing your spells (like a bard). Most assassins wouldn't want to be forced to sing.

Geoff.

You have any rules passage to back that up? Because I think that assassins can cast in light armours without failure, too. It just makes sense. (Otherwise they'd have given the sorcerer as an example, he's the poster child for casting without preparation).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hmmm, still no definite answer. My opinion is that there are 4 arcane casters in core D&D. Sorcerors and Wizards have no armor proficiencies, Bards have Light Armor Proficiency but can cast in their armor, while Assassins have Light Armor Proficiency. It seems odd to give a class a proficiency if it's going to impede their spellcasting. Assassins actually have a bunch of really nice spells worth casting, so I find it strange that it would impede them. I'm leaning towards no ASF.

Pinotage

It makes the most sense, too. Assassins are like rogues, and I always picture them in some light armour.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Casting in light armor isn't a product of bard "spellcasting" (whatever that is). It is a product of their armor proficiency as Deset Gled pointed out.

 

[Deset Gled]

Casting in light armor isn't a product of bard "spellcasting" (whatever that is). It is a product of their armor proficiency as Deset Gled pointed out.

Thanks, Third. I was beginning to wonder if my post was invisible or something.

Once more, with feeling...

The full text regarding bardic casting is as follows:

Spells: A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music). To learn or cast a spell, a bard must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the bard’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a bard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Bard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: Bard Spells Known indicates that the bard gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.

The bard’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A bard begins play knowing four 0-level spells of your choice. At most new bard levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Bard Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)

Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third bard level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a bard can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the bard “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level bard spell the bard can cast. A bard may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

As noted above, a bard need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Nowhere in this text does it mention the ability to cast in armor. That ability is only referenced in their Weapon and Armor Proficiencies, as I quoted above.

The bard's ability to cast spells in armor has nothing to do with their spellcasting ability. It is a property of their armor proficiency. As such, nothing in the Assassins class description references the ability to cast in armor. Assassins cannot cast in armor without ASF penalties.

You have any rules passage to back that up? Because I think that assassins can cast in light armours without failure, too.

I believe I have now quoted all of the relevant text. It supports my side. Is there any rules text to back up your ruling? If there's anything I've missed (like text in the PHB that does not appear in the SRD), please, tell us.

(A smiley for good measure)