D&D 5E Assaying rules for non-racial ASIs

[Bagpuss]

Class-based ASIs

I get what you were thinking here, but I disagree with the implementation.

Race based ASI, is actually the base you are working from. The practice is where you decide to apply your best attributes to, be they from dice rolls, point buy or standard array, to be better at your class.

I think the fact you actually go through attribute calculation backwards in some ways is what causes the disconnect.


Unrelated: Why is language still tied to race, rather than the culture you grew up in?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Ultimately I feel that if ASIs are not tied to something separate from class, they're pointless. If the end result is that you will always have the same score in your most important ability, there in no need to do it in two separate steps (point buy & ASI.) Hell, at that point you might even skip the one step. Just say that all characters have 16 (or whatever is deemed to be the must have baseline) in their main ability and only allow assigning the rest of the scores.

ASIs being tied to separate choice results interesting/annoying interplay which forces you to build your character slightly differently. Some people like this, some hate it.

 

[Bagpuss]

This is what I found while attempting to homebrew a bunch of stuff.

If you're trying to stat up a large number of subraces, eventually a lot of it feels completely arbitrary when you're trying to not repeat similar ASI combos. When you completely eliminate ASIs though, suddenly you're only designing for racial flavor instead of worrying about math widgets. Dropping arbitrary numbers out of the statblock forces you to focus on pure narrative/flavor elements because that's the only vector that you have to approach the design with.

I can see this, limiting you tool set does mean you have to be more inventive with what you have left. But it seems a bit like breaking all an artists brushes so they come up with a new style using a palette knife. Once you've learned that, why continue to limit your options? Why not have both.

 

[clearstream]

I get what you were thinking here, but I disagree with the implementation.

Race based ASI, is actually the base you are working from. The practice is where you decide to apply your best attributes to, be they from dice rolls, point buy or standard array, to be better at your class.

Partly this is informed by what I see players consistently doing, but for most of us that is a fairly small set. I have kept track, and olver a few dozen players, and several tens of characters, only one chose against their class core abilities.

Unrelated: Why is language still tied to race, rather than the culture you grew up in?

It is tied to culture. For reasons that might only become clear if I gave the full campaign conceit, there are two native cultures and one emergent culture in the archipelago. Much narrower than say the Sword Coast. Everyone shares pelagic (the emergent culture). The children of elven parents also learn their parents' native language. The children of orcish parents learn theirs. Those of mixed parentage can choose (representing the choice of their parents, of course).

 

[clearstream]

I can see this, limiting you tool set does mean you have to be more inventive with what you have left. But it seems a bit like breaking all an artists brushes so they come up with a new style using a palette knife. Once you've learned that, why continue to limit your options? Why not have both.

I believe that great design is informed by constraints. An artist chooses which constraints they want to work within, of course, and that choice might not always be conscious: it can be just where they naturally land.

Any game is a set of exclusions. You cannot move your counter immediately to the final square, rather you must move it within the constraint of passing through all the other squares. Your magic missile spell is not also a speak with animals and fireball, rather it just creates a few force darts. Your polymorph spell or stunning strike is not at-will, rather you have a limit per day. What you choose not to do is everything.

 

[NaturalZero]

I can see this, limiting you tool set does mean you have to be more inventive with what you have left. But it seems a bit like breaking all an artists brushes so they come up with a new style using a palette knife. Once you've learned that, why continue to limit your options? Why not have both.

It was more like the old design forced you to use orange hues in every painting and when you finally realize that you didn't need to force them into every piece, you're free to make a composition without relying on them for every image. Of course, you still have the option to use whatever hues you want for your own piece!

Keeping ASIs and having a large swath of races means you see the same number widgets repeated, eventually, much like every other race getting boring old darkvision. Removing them means that more of the race mechanics are actually unique instead of copy and paste.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

My variant.

no bonuses to ability scores from race/class

point buy:
pool 32pts

score 8: 0 pts
score 9: 1 pt
score 10: 2 pts
score 11: 3 pts
score 12: 4 pts
score 13: 5 pts
score 14: 6 pts
score 15: 8 pts
score 16: 10 pts

Mine is closer to the costs in the PHB, with 35 points and a score of 16 costing 12 points. IIRC.

 

[Bagpuss]

Keeping ASIs and having a large swath of races means you see the same number widgets repeated, eventually, much like every other race getting boring old darkvision. Removing them means that more of the race mechanics are actually unique instead of copy and paste.

They should have kept ASI and got rid of darkvision if they really wanted to see variety.

 

[clearstream]

They should have kept ASI and got rid of darkvision if they really wanted to see variety.

I find that you need to actually assay the design to judge. Only after I tried designs with and without ASIs did their weakness as a means of delivering variety come into sight. Maybe by proxy, you can detect that from the shadow cast on them by floating ASIs, and through assessing the kinds of integrations @Horwath and @Cap'n Kobold have assayed.

 

[NaturalZero]

They should have kept ASI and got rid of darkvision if they really wanted to see variety.

In all honesty, I'd like 90% of the instances of darkvision dropped, and tremorsense, infravision, blindsight, et al, inserted for variety.