D&D 5E Assaying rules for non-racial ASIs

clearstream

(He, Him)
There has been a lot of discussion on this lately. I assayed rules for my homebrew campaign and doing so seemed to bring a few things to light. Those rules are here Archipelago Character Generation - The Homebrewery. I left in notes in square brackets that affected my design thinking.

Class-based ASIs
I noticed that +2/+1 floating fails my goals on a few counts. First, I disliked it for MAD characters who sometimes wanted +1/+1/+1. Second, for me, it felt better to say that a halfling fighter might have more strength than a goliath wizard, than that halflings generically might: it just seems to make sense to me that practice results in a stat bump; something that also happens throughout a character's career. The letters in square brackets roughly rank classes according to how strong they seem in my campaigns (also influenced by internet research). I gave monk and ranger half an ASI more than the other classes because of the combination of low rank and MAD class features: it felt good to be able to do that.

Non-ASI Races
What I found even more interesting, is that without the crutch of ASIs to lean on I felt forced to be more rigorous with race trait design. It opened up races to being considered for every class, and once that happened I had to revisit racial traits to matter more to every class, and yet still speak to a specific feeling in play. In square brackets is one word describing the essence of each race in my campaign - sea orcs should feel hardy, copper elves should feel versatile, islanders (half-orc, half-elf) should feel blessed.

You can see that copper elves were based on wood elves, yet obviously something like Mask of the Wild was just too narrow to meet my design goals. Fantastic for stealthy classes, but useless for anyone who doesn't lean heavily into stealth. I adjusted each trait until it felt like I could build characters around them in a swathe of classes. I was not trying to make each race great for every single class, but certainly for a good number of classes. And I wanted choice of race to influence in a small way how I was going to play the class.

Undoing Negative Tropes
I found littered all through race descriptions - including fluff for traits - loaded language. An orc would never be allowed an adroit or skillful attack - orcs must be savage! Elves were always better than thou: refined, graceful, lithe limbs and long lives. I unwound all of that, but not with a goal of making them all the same or even getting rid of sinister, evil beings. Rather it felt very much to me that some races stand in for real human stereotypes. Fantasy narratives are heavily loaded with symbolism, and these races symbolised negative stereotypes. Worse than that - going beyond specific negative stereotypes they also symbolised a framework for racism, i.e. that some races just are better than others. That may be unproblematic where species differentiation is crystal clear - a mouse is not as strong or intelligent as a human - but where a race can be read as (symbolically) a real-world human stereotype, then it feels very problematic. Orcs, elves, yuan-ti, dwarves... we can find many examples of problematic loading on these races. I attempted to recast every aspect of each race in a positive light, without making them all the same. Not better, not worse: diverse.

There are some grey areas. Aarakocra seem to me alien - six limbs, flight - so they don't seem to me to fall into the same analytical space as say orcs. To my mind the most problematic races stand out as those that humans can interbreed with or become.

Doing the Design
It felt much harder to design good races without ASIs, but far more satisfying to do so. And I really loved the ability to pair any race with any class: that feels very liberating. I have done some mild playtesting with a friend (a game designer, also) and we both noticed this. I used detect balance to balance the three races fairly closely. Tweaks are still needed.

Doing this work left me with a lot of questions. Are racial traits for human-like races ever going to be a good idea? Or do they trap us into a belief framework for racism? I don't know the answer to that.
 

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Hmm, interesting.

While I can see that there could have been problematic language used to describe certain races (orcs come to mind), I don't think we should get rid of "traits" of various races. I'm not saying orcs should remain savages (though other races, such as dwarves and elves, may brand them as such), but I don't think we should make all races "human", either, otherwise, we might as well just all play humans, and get rid of elves, orcs, dwarves, halflings, etc, entirely. And all these races have roots in real world mythologies, anyway, and while you probably could make the argument that said mythologies stem from certain prejudices, I don't think it means we should erase them from fantasy literature.

While making more classes available to more races (or species, if you would rather) levels the playing field, so to speak, the races/species have a culture, and that adds to diversity, imho. This of course doesn't mean all members of a race are going to be the epitome of their culture, I wouldn't want to see races just made into humans, if that makes sense. This is the issue I had with the bladesinger class being made available to non-elves, as it was as much a cultural thing for them as it was a class. Making it available to others can indeed provide fodder for character backstories and more playable options, but it also erases the cultural traits that make the bladesinger an elven notion.

As I've said in other posts, elves, dwarves, orcs, etc, all have a culture. It doesn't have to be mono-culture, as there could be regional differences, but it is enough to recognize it as a culture of X. There are of course negative aspects of every culture (just like in the real world), but I don't think we should get rid of what makes elves elves, dwarves dwarves, halflings halfings, etc (though certain races, like orcs, are a gray area, as they have a very "savage" culture, and, depending on how this is done, it could be problematic).

I think some races could be more easily traced to negative stereotypes than others. Orcs, for one, as I mentioned above. Perhaps it's a matter of balance and how certain races are presented (though I don't have answers, either). I don't want to see all races essentially just be made into humans, but there are negative connotations, particularly with orcs, that need to be addressed.

For elves, I think the "better than thou" attitude comes in part from their long lives, their origins (depending on setting), and pride in being, well, elves. I suppose you could draw the symbolism that this is nationalism. But I think most fantasy races are proud of being of that race. It could be made into something negative, just like in the real world, when nationalism goes too far. But I don't think being proud of being of X country or ethnicity is necessarily in and of itself a bad thing. You could have elves (just like humans irl) taking it too far, but pride in being an elf and elven culture in itself isn't negative, I don't think.

But I don't think the answer is "clearing the slate". as elves are different from humans, different from dwarves, gnomes, etc, and that is part of what makes it enjoyable--variety, and multiple races/species can bring diversity, so you're not all basically humans. Being a human in real life, I like playing something that is not human.

Apologies for being all over the place with my post. It's certainly a balance, and I don't know where the correct "strike" is.
 

Scribe

Legend
Are racial traits for human-like races ever going to be a good idea? Or do they trap us into a belief framework for racism? I don't know the answer to that.
Well, I think your are going to find that as evidenced by a few thousand posts, that this is a question you need to answer for yourself.

For me? Yes it's a fine idea. I do not accept that it is racist to believe a literally tiny being is going to be different in its attributes, when compared to a massive one. I believe that is simply the reality of world building where you have multiple humanoid races, which you dont want to be 'just different looking humans'.

Which you can want! If that is your thing that's totally fine.

For me? Well lets just look at the raw numbers.
Goliath - 7 to 8 feet tall. 280-340 pounds.
Halfling- 2'8" to 3'4". 30-35 pounds.

Take 10 minutes to google NBA stars, or MMA fighters, or Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson who is only (lol) 6'9" with his 5'2" wife...

So yeah, I want some crunch behind those size differences, thankfully you dont have to if you are not comfortable with that.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
Well, I think your are going to find that as evidenced by a few thousand posts, that this is a question you need to answer for yourself.
I believe that we're working out those answers as a group. It won't come from one person, it won't be a stopping point but more a step forward on a journey, and there will be better and worse takes on it.

Whatever we think about halflings and goliaths, I suspect we need to design and write in terms of differentiable positives (goliaths are strong, halflings are nimble, say), and put clear water between pretend races and real world stereotypes. I don't think it is right to have races that are simply superior. There must be balance. Strength is a far worse ability than Dexterity in 5e, so what do goliaths have in balance? Cultural facts must admit of both diversity and mutability. Individual choices must be able to overwrite other assumptions. Many orcs are savage, but this one is gentle. Maybe goliaths are often stronger than halflings, but this one is not.

It might well be that the correct mechanics for separating goliaths from halflings haven't been written yet. And ASIs are just too basic a system to do the job well.
 

Horwath

Legend
My variant.

no bonuses to ability scores from race/class

point buy:
pool 32pts

score 8: 0 pts
score 9: 1 pt
score 10: 2 pts
score 11: 3 pts
score 12: 4 pts
score 13: 5 pts
score 14: 6 pts
score 15: 8 pts
score 16: 10 pts
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
My variant.

no bonuses to ability scores from race/class

point buy:
pool 32pts

score 8: 0 pts
score 9: 1 pt
score 10: 2 pts
score 11: 3 pts
score 12: 4 pts
score 13: 5 pts
score 14: 6 pts
score 15: 8 pts
score 16: 10 pts
Imagine

Goliath
STR costs 1pt less
DEX costs 1pt more

Halfling
STR costs 1pt more
DEX costs 1pt less

Or something like that. So the scale is shifted depending on race, but you can still have strong halflings and nimble goliaths.

Alternatively (or additionally)

Goliath
STR score 17: 12pts

Halfling
DEX score 17: 12pts
 

Horwath

Legend
@clearstream

I would not change the price of abilities, that is racial boosts disguised by another name.

I would however , as an option put maximum and minimum STARTING scores that HAVE to be taken for certain races.

I.E.
human, nothing

Elves: min dex 12, max con 14. wood elves min str 10, min wis 10. High elves min int 10.

Half elves: min dex 10

Dwarves, min str 10, min con 12, max dex 14, max cha 14

Orcs, min str 14, min con 12, max int 14, max wis 14, max cha 14.

half orcs: min str 12


this will not give any penalties to buying abilities and if chosen will keep certain stereotype for races.

You can still have max ability 20 even if your starting max is 14, it will just take you one ASI more(or 4 class levels)

or limit all scores to 18 so every character can max primary stat at 8th level if they wish to focus on it, even with racial "penalty"
 

@clearstream

I would not change the price of abilities, that is racial boosts disguised by another name.

I would however , as an option put maximum and minimum STARTING scores that HAVE to be taken for certain races.

I.E.
human, nothing

Elves: min dex 12, max con 14. wood elves min str 10, min wis 10. High elves min int 10.

Half elves: min dex 10

Dwarves, min str 10, min con 12, max dex 14, max cha 14

Orcs, min str 14, min con 12, max int 14, max wis 14, max cha 14.

half orcs: min str 12


this will not give any penalties to buying abilities and if chosen will keep certain stereotype for races.

You can still have max ability 20 even if your starting max is 14, it will just take you one ASI more(or 4 class levels)

or limit all scores to 18 so every character can max primary stat at 8th level if they wish to focus on it, even with racial "penalty"
Yes, agreed. Halflings having increased cost on strength but same cap will not result halfling fighters and barbarians having worse strength than goliath ones, it will result them having same strength whilst being worse at something completely unrelated. Your suggestion here is roughly how I did this in my houserules. Everyone will have the same cost for the same final score, which seems fair to me. Species just affect minimums and maximums, but you still always get what you pay for.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
I would not change the price of abilities, that is racial boosts disguised by another name.
You're probably right. And given in the end all current races are capped at 20 - so the strongest goliath is no stronger than the strongest halfling - I don't fully follow the argument about that. Say that I thought goliaths should be naturally stronger than halflings: is that really captured by +2 strength and an identical max? Is the resultant +1 to hit and damage, and 30lbs CC, really all I'm thinking of?

It might be that it is better to think of ASIs as proficiency in application. A halfling can be just as good at climbing as a goliath, say, because of being able to apply their strength for weight just as effectively. A halfling who knows how to apply their strength can hit just as effectively with weapons they can use. Everyone might then work in the same range for ability scores, and goliath strength is perhaps better captured by mechanics such as a greater CC for size and access to heavy weapons.
 
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What I found even more interesting, is that without the crutch of ASIs to lean on I felt forced to be more rigorous with race trait design.
This is what I found while attempting to homebrew a bunch of stuff.

If you're trying to stat up a large number of subraces, eventually a lot of it feels completely arbitrary when you're trying to not repeat similar ASI combos. When you completely eliminate ASIs though, suddenly you're only designing for racial flavor instead of worrying about math widgets. Dropping arbitrary numbers out of the statblock forces you to focus on pure narrative/flavor elements because that's the only vector that you have to approach the design with.
 

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