Astral Fire Style Feats

[Cadfan]

But isn't that analysis a question of 3.X scale feats vs. 4.0 scale feats?

Its worse than that, its mathematically useless. What matters isn't the percentage of a kobold (or other monster's) hit points you're doing thanks to the Astral Fire feat. What matters is the percentage increase to your own damage.

 

[Khaim]

I'm seriously considering houseruling these to +1 die size (maybe scaling to +2 at epic). I still don't think they would be very good, but at least they wouldn't be laughable.

 

[Cadfan]

If you houserule to +1 die size, you won't need to boost them at epic. They'll boost automatically because the number of dice boost at epic.

That being said, it is a heroic tier feat. It provides a small but noticeable damage boost. I don't think it needs much more than that.

 

[Nifft]

Its worse than that, its mathematically useless.

If you assume the feats are going to cost you a reduction in your attack stat, they're useless.

If you assume they're targeted at races / builds which just happen to qualify easily, they're just a nice bonus.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Cadfan]

If you assume the feats are going to cost you a reduction in your attack stat, they're useless.

If you assume they're targeted at races / builds which just happen to qualify easily, they're just a nice bonus.

Cheers, -- N

I was talking about Voss' "percentage of a kobold's hit points" test. The feats are fine if you meet the prereqs. I agree about the reduction in the attack stat.

 

[Yarthok]

Dragonborn Paladin and Astral Fire

Final dragonborn paladin stats...tradeoff discussed below.
STR 18
CON 13
DEX 13
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 14

I stole from wisdom (16-->14) getting 4 build points back, losing a plus to wisdom. I increase dex (10-->13) getting a plus in dex based skills, defenses, etc. and toss the extra point into CON (12 --> 13). I'll use one of my future attr increases to boost CON, getting an increase to dragonbreath damage plus an increase in healing surges and, because its a dragonborn char, an increase in surge.

So, if I am a dragonborn paladin doing, with at-will holy strike radiant, 1d8 (longsword) + 4 (str mod), then the +1 from astral fire is an 11.7% increase in average damage. (8.5 -->increases to--> 9.5). If the target is marked, then damage is increased +9.5% (10.5 --> 11.5). There is a little peter robbing paul tradeoff by reducing wisdom, since a marked target gets the wisdom bonus added to the damage. However, the astral fire damage also scales with level (paragon & epic), and the wisdom base attr bonus doesn't.

Further, my dragonbreath (str/fire) avg damage increases by 18% (5.5 --> 6.5)

Overall, it works for me and fits my character. Definately, I give up a wisdom bonus making some of the paladin powers not as attractive, but being dragonborn, I will concentrate on the STR based powers. For this character, I don't need to rob from the primary attack power stat (STR) to get use from astral fire.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Yeah, I have to agree with you there. When I looked at damage percentages of at wills, I got a similar damage increase.

Scorching Burst at 1st level
7.5->8.5 13.3% Increase

11th
11.5->13.5 17.4% Increase

21st
19->22 15.8% Increase

30th
21->24 14.3% Increase

Now these are only at wills, it will be a smaller percentage of daily's and encounter powers because they deal more damage obviously. These are assuming an item bonus of your level. And again, this would be reducing Wis from 16->14 to raise con to 13 from 10 and cha from 12-13 (I'm taking spell focus regardless so I need the cha, also the only other thing I can throw this extra point into is str). My dex is already going to be atleast 13 to take arcane reach.

It seems to me that this damage increase of about 10% (I'm assuming lower as many of the abities these feats increase are only encounters and dailies) could possibly be worth more than the extra -1 to one save per encounter. Not to mention the increased hit points, healing surges and eventually charisma based skills.

If anyone who is better at this number crunching, and I know there are a lot of you, can show me where I went wrong in this analysis show me, I will absolutely change my opinion.

 

[nameless]

If you assume the feats are going to cost you a reduction in your attack stat, they're useless.

If you assume they're targeted at races / builds which just happen to qualify easily, they're just a nice bonus.

Cheers, -- N

The problem isn't costing a feat, the problem is that they all have prereqs that no good build is going to "happen by." You have to sacrifice one of your primary 3 ability scores to get +1 damage sometimes (except for some wizards with burning blizzard).

 

[Nifft]

The problem isn't costing a feat, the problem is that they all have prereqs that no good build is going to "happen by." You have to sacrifice one of your primary 3 ability scores to get +1 damage sometimes (except for some wizards with burning blizzard).

Here's one that you will just "happen by": Elf Controller Wizard.

Int 16
Wis 18
Cha 12 (for Spell Focus)
Dex ... oh hey, 12

So you're wrong. It can "just so happen" that you qualify for one of those feats. Elf Clerics have it even easier.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rystil Arden]

The problem isn't costing a feat, the problem is that they all have prereqs that no good build is going to "happen by." You have to sacrifice one of your primary 3 ability scores to get +1 damage sometimes (except for some wizards with burning blizzard).

Well, most Wizards will be able to take Burning Blizzard right off the bat (so would Warlock/DivineOracle builds, but they won't have enough Cold powers to make it worth it). Evil Clerics who do Necrotic Damage will probably have Con and Wis enough for Dark Fury, particularly if they are Dwarves. Raging Storm is a bit annoying, since it uses two physical stats--I suppose it might work for the Stormwarden's extra damage (though maybe not, since I guess it isn't technically a power with the Lightning keyword, but neither is a basic attack with a Shocking weapon that converted all the damage to Lightning, and it seems silly not to add the damage with that).

But yeah, in general it will not fall into your lap and is often not worth the purchase price.