D&D 5E Asymmetrical stealth

[Hriston]

How do you handle this?

This may or may not be relevant, depending on one's approach, but one of the main factors I consider when I determine whether a Stealth/Perception contest is in order is the audible distance of quiet noise. To be stealthy in any way, I first require conditions to be established that allow the stealthy creature to stay out of view of an observer. As long as those conditions prevail, the creature cannot be seen, and detection will be by other means available including hearing. I randomly determine audible distance with 2d6, which gives a range of 10 to 60 feet for the quiet noises made by a stealthy creature, generally around 35 feet, and I make this distance known to any player that declares such an action for their character. If the stealthy creature is outside this range, it cannot be heard, so unless some other means of detection is available to the observer, a contest to resolve the attempt at remaining undetected is unnecessary, and it succeeds.

 

[Hriston]

By RAW, you should make a group check for the sneaking creatures - each individual member of the group makes the check, and if half or more succeed, the group succeeds, if more than half fail, the group fails.

I don't think that's the intended use of a group check. According to the PHB, "they're most useful when all the characters succeed or fail as a group." And it gives the example of a party trying to navigate through a swamp. As you point out in the rest of your response, it only takes one creature failing to be stealthy for observers to notice there is a hidden threat nearby, which would indicate that a group check is inappropriate in this situation.

 

[5ekyu]

When a gang of mobs is stalking my players, I usually roll one stealth check for all of them (if they’re all the same type.). But I just realized that when my party sneaks up on mobs, they each roll. This gives an advantage to the mobs. How do you handle this?


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I use the "group success" rules which allow for if half the party makes their checks it counts as everyone made it as long as they are not separated.

narratively it represents the skilled character spotting the best approaches, the quieter paths, best timing to move from cover to cover and also even just cinching down loose stuf etc for those who are making noise. Can still be spoiled by the nosiy folks if enough folks dont make saves, but helps to represent teamwork inn that case.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think that's the intended use of a group check. According to the PHB, "they're most useful when all the characters succeed or fail as a group." And it gives the example of a party trying to navigate through a swamp. As you point out in the rest of your response, it only takes one creature failing to be stealthy for observers to notice there is a hidden threat nearby, which would indicate that a group check is inappropriate in this situation.

I‘m pretty sure “if one of you is found, you’re all found” is pretty much the definition of succeeding or failing as a group - either the whole group succeeds, or the whole group fails, there is no third option.

 

[Hriston]

I‘m pretty sure “if one of you is found, you’re all found” is pretty much the definition of succeeding or failing as a group - either the whole group succeeds, or the whole group fails, there is no third option.

The third option is that only the one noisy creature is noticed, but other more stealthy creatures remain unnoticed, which is how I run it. This spoils surprise, but doesn't prevent attacks from hiding.

 

[Charlaquin]

The third option is that only the one noisy creature is noticed, but other more stealthy creatures remain unnoticed, which is how I run it. This spoils surprise, but doesn't prevent attacks from hiding.

Only if they’re not all in the same place. In which case, they’re not sneaking as a group, and a group check would obviously not be necessary.

 

[Hriston]

Only if they’re not all in the same place. In which case, they’re not sneaking as a group, and a group check would obviously not be necessary.

Interesting. The way I run it, each creature is considered to inhabit its own discrete space, so this doesn't become an issue. One creature can be noticed while the others remain hidden. I suppose if I considered the group to be inhabiting a "group space", then your approach may at times seem desirable to me, but it's just not the way I run things.

 

[jgsugden]

Again, there are a lot of ways to do this and they all work - in their way. I really like how my approach works, and if someone is looking for a system with a proven track record, you can see my posts on this thread - but we're never going to get a consensus on the 'right' way to do this type of stuff because it is so subjective.

 

[Charlaquin]

Interesting. The way I run it, each creature is considered to inhabit its own discrete space, so this doesn't become an issue. One creature can be noticed while the others remain hidden. I suppose if I considered the group to be inhabiting a "group space", then your approach may at times seem desirable to me, but it's just not the way I run things.

Yeah, each creature inhabits it’s own space, but each space is only 5 feet by 5 feeet. You could be the sneakiest rogue in the world, but unless you’re invisible, if you’re standing 5 feet away from the fighter when the orcs find him, they’re going to see you too.

 

[Hriston]

Yeah, each creature inhabits it’s own space, but each space is only 5 feet by 5 feeet. You could be the sneakiest rogue in the world, but unless you’re invisible, if you’re standing 5 feet away from the fighter when the orcs find him, they’re going to see you too.

This is the real difference then in the way we each employ the hiding rules. As I posted upthread, there would need to be a means of staying out of sight that any creature attempting to be stealthy is availing itself of for the attempt to have a chance of success in my games. That means the rogue and the fighter are "invisible" from the orcs' point of view, i.e. neither one of them can be seen without something changing about the situation. The fighter may be detected by hearing, or even scent if the orcs are close enough, but even though they notice one unseen creature doesn't mean they are aware of any others.