At Least 4 Months For Conversion Documents

Those waiting for official conversion documents from earlier editions of D&D to 5th edition are going to have to wait a bit longer. WotC's Mike Mearls says that "the person who needs to do the final approvals on them is serving on a jury that will take another 4 or so months. Sorry!" So it looks like we're talking July/August at the earliest. Thanks to Adrian for the scoop.

 

[Iosue]

With regards to this communication, why not explain a bit more? They know their overly sensitive audience and that everything will be picked apart, over- and mis-interpreted. Why not say, "The guy who needs to do the final work is on jury duty AND we can't allocate other resources because everyone else is working on the OGL, Forgotten Realms setting book, etc - which you're going to love!"

Because some guy asked Mearls on Twitter about it, and Mearls, likely not expecting or caring that it would become a huge thread on EN World, answered as best he could in 140 characters. I imagine he hardly felt he would have to justify the rescheduling of soft plans for release of free material on the website when he had much bigger fish to fry.

 

[Trickster Spirit]

At least we agree there is a staffing problem.

Heh, well we would if I didn't think the current amount of staff is putting out content at pace that I am personally very comfortable with.

You're arguing from of position of believing it is a foregone conclusion that profits trump quality, support, and customer satisfaction (not that quality, support, and/or customer satisfaction can be completely ignored, just that profits always trump them). No matter what I say and no matter what you argue, you will always wind up at that result. At least we agree there is a staffing problem.

Eh, I think beating the horse to paste with a stick (it's been dead for ages now) has lead me to harden my words some - I do think it is a foregone conclusion that a company should invest its resources into avenues that will yield the best returns on those investments. I hate examples of greedy companies screwing over good people to make a quick profit as much as the next person, but, well, I work for a company, and my livelihood and the livelihood of all my coworkers relies on our company navigating the economy smartly.

We could absolutely do a better job at quality / support / customer satisfaction, I think any company could and should always improve those metrics, but at the end of the day the bosses will make judgement calls that they think will best help grow the company but. Sure there are s / sociopaths who've risen into a position of power and only care about their yacht / sports car / quarterly bonus, but even a good corporate decision maker is going to value the team members who depend on him/her and view the customers as a close second. I don't begrudge any company putting their bottom line first, that's just how companies work.

As you've pointed out though I don't think quality, support or customer satisfaction should be ignored, but it comes down to differing standards of what those things mean. Wizards has put out an extremely high quality edition. Support is subjective - I've gotten all the support I personally need in form of the player companions in the I'd be happy with a little more but have no problems with the current pace.

Your standards for what you're hoping to get out of the relationship with WotC are likely higher, and that's fine. I'm sure Mearls and co. would prefer you were happier, apart from seeing like generally nice dudes it's just solid business sense to make sure your customers are happy with you. But if you're looking for more than what they're capable of giving you I'm not sure what they could possibly do to make that happen.

In other words, the fact that the size of the staff is small isn't the actual point of contention, it's that the amount of support Wizards is looking to provide 5E with only requires a small staff. It's not "we'd like to put out more, but we've only got 8 people" its, "we've decided to put this much material out, and only need 8 people to do it." If that system works for them than I'm not sure it's really a "problem", just not meeting some fan's expectations.

 

[lyle.spade]

Are you new to EN World?

GENIUSES! Geeks are so funny...and can be so tiring, too, in our dogged pursuit of our small arguments and precision related to tiny specs of trivia. Game on, people! Once more unto the breach!

When viewing "debates" like this I nod, I smile, I drop a comment like this, and then I go find something useful to do with my time.

 

[Kramodlog]

I'm a bit bemused by some people saying the size of the staff is the problem and Mearls probably asked for more and was refused. I mean they did just fire two editors who were working directly on the RPG and hired instead a communication manager and a license overseer, who both will not work on the RPG.

I'm not sure this was done without Mearls being consulted, his approval or that it wasn't his request in the first place.

 

[Mark CMG]

It's not "we'd like to put out more, but we've only got 8 people" its, "we've decided to put this much material out, and only need 8 people to do it." If that system works for them than I'm not sure it's really a "problem", just not meeting some fan's expectations.

I think you've summed up our positions pretty well but there is a bit of a disconnect here. It's not like they never planned on having a conversion guide, and never said they would have one. They did plan one, have worked on one, and have delayed it almost to the point of it being no use for their own bolstering of the edition meant to bring back all of the previous edition players. That's not just folks wanting something from them that WotC didn't plan, that's WotC failing to follow through on a project in a timely manner due to staffing problems. So, you have to understand that we're not really discussing what it is that folks might or might not be allowed to expect but rather what WotC expected of themselves. It's fine to argue that you don't expect it from them and that maybe other folks shouldn't either but the discussion is really about what is expected of WotC based on what WotC said they expected of themselves.

 

[Fergurg]

This company baffles me. They continue to find ways to bungle things, no matter what the context. They have a home run in 5E yet they continue to find ways to fumble the ball.

WotC = Seattle Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Hmm...is it a Washington state thing?

Don't forget, Washington was now of the first states to legalize marijuana.

Just an observation.

 

[Trickster Spirit]

I think you've summed up our positions pretty well but there is a bit of a disconnect here. It's not like they never planned on having a conversion guide, and never said they would have one. They did plan one, have worked on one, and have delayed it almost to the point of it being no use for their own bolstering of the edition meant to bring back all of the previous edition players. That's not just folks wanting something from them that WotC didn't plan, that's WotC failing to follow through on a project in a timely manner due to staffing problems. So, you have to understand that we're not really discussing what it is that folks might or might not be allowed to expect but rather what WotC expected of themselves. It's fine to argue that you don't expect it from them and that maybe other folks shouldn't either but the discussion is really about what is expected of WotC based on what WotC said they expected of themselves.

Right, sorry there was a bit of topic drift on that point as the size of the staff is so closely tied to the amount of D&D products can come out. That is distinct from whether or not they're able to achieve their own plans, you're right. I do think it is a relevant side note to keep in mind while discussing what exactly their plans are, though.

But in this case I'm afraid it's just a matter of priorities being different. I honestly think they just view the conversion guides as a bennie they can give to the fans, not something that's going to "bolster the edition" in any real sense. I'm honestly expecting them to be 90% a rehashing of content that's already in the DMG with some examples for each edition. They said that we could expect them early 2015 because they figured they could find the time to put it alongside the "real projects" but the removal of one of their critical team members means they're not going to be able to spare the manpower for it.

You're right that the discussion is about what we should be able to expect from WotC based on what they've said about their own expectations, I just think we're drawing different conclusions from what they're saying. Last year they said "we're taking a bit of a breather after the DMG and conversion docs will probably be done in January", and I expected that to be the case. Now Mearls is saying a long jury duty case that's lasted since January has pushed it back and I expect the conversion docs to come out when they're back and can find the time to put them out.

I'm not sure what your expectations for the game are moving forward - it sounds like you were really hoping to have those conversion docs already and I'm sorry that that's the case.

I don't have any problem taking Mearls and co. at their word, but can also understand that plans change or fall through and so expect cancellations and delays to happen. Basically, I see others discuss and debate their lofty expectations for what WotC will provide for the game, but to my eyes, it looks like most of the work on 5E has been accomplished. I suppose I don't expect much at all to be honest but that's not a pessimistic view - I just think they've put out a very good game and that not much else is needed, at least for a while. In my eyes anything that comes out at all after the core books, conversion docs included, is simply gravy.

Your mileage obviously varies, but from a catering-to-your-customers perspective I think for fifth edition Wizards is specifically targeting casual players who are going to be even less upset over the lack of conversion documents or other supplementary materials than I.

 

[Mark CMG]

I'm not sure what your expectations for the game are moving forward (. . .)

I suppose I don't expect much at all to be honest (. . .)

I concur but with different details. Nevertheless, let's cite this as additional common ground.

 

[Dausuul]

Paizo released its conversion guide for Pathfinder within a couple weeks, iirc, of their Core Rulebook being released and they were not the industry leader at the time, had a much smaller budget and more than a few irons in the fire.

You're saying that Pathfinder had conversion guides for BD&D, 1E, 2E, and 3E within a couple of weeks of the Core Rulebook being released?

Because if you're just talking about the conversion guide for 3.5E, that's a ridiculous comparison. The whole point of Pathfinder was to be compatible with 3.5E.

 

[Wicht]

You're saying that Pathfinder had conversion guides for BD&D, 1E, 2E, and 3E within a couple of weeks of the Core Rulebook being released?

Because if you're just talking about the conversion guide for 3.5E, that's a ridiculous comparison. The whole point of Pathfinder was to be compatible with 3.5E.

Paizo's conversion document was only for 3.5 to Pathfinder, sure, and, at a mere 18 pages (though free, full-colored, professionally laid out and edited), it certainly can't compare to a full sized book which will detail the minutia of converting back and forth between every edition of Dungeons and Dragons ever published. Or at least it couldn't if such a book were ever released.

But then again, Paizo never promised such a document.