Athanatos - A Transhumanist Fantasy Setting

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I agree that you have to have many more than one main idea to make a setting interesting. Look at the number of ideas crammed into any of the great books - like Neverness, to pick an extreme example containing transhumanist themes.

Transhumanist fantasy (or scifi masquerading as fantasy - we build the universe that is hardcoded in our minds, so the future is likely to look a lot like our ancestors thought the mythical past to be) is definitely interesting. You should take a look at Unicorn Jelly; quite interesting.

I like the theme enough to have two settings lurking that use it as a model:

The City, the Shades

Based on an abstract of a simulated existence called "The City Scenario", but given my own spin. The existing materials explain the metasetting fairly well.

Spirits of Rock and Sky

(Mildly transhuman) people trapped on an engineered world after some kind of fall from grace, largely ignorant of their technological heritage.

Reason
 

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It's an interesting idea. I think a cool aspect would to have the Star-being be intelligent beyond reckoning by mortals (like Galactus from Marvel comics). He could send out "heralds" to find inhabited worlds and then slowly bend as many of the inhabitants towards worshipping him/it as possible. You could say that the more worship it gets the easier it is for it to find the planet. That way the strength of the cult is directly tied to the likelyhood of the planet's sentient beings being absorbed.
 

Darth Shoju said:
It's an interesting idea. I think a cool aspect would to have the Star-being be intelligent beyond reckoning by mortals (like Galactus from Marvel comics). He could send out "heralds" to find inhabited worlds and then slowly bend as many of the inhabitants towards worshipping him/it as possible.

Well, at the very least there have been no recorded instances of spellcasting clerics of the Star while he was distant. So it seems to send out some sort of emanations...

You could say that the more worship it gets the easier it is for it to find the planet. That way the strength of the cult is directly tied to the likelyhood of the planet's sentient beings being absorbed.

That's certainly what the cultists believe, which is why many of them are busy trying to recruit new followers...
 

Instead of having two Constitution scores (one for the currently inhabited body and one for the actual soul), why not have Charisma be the basis for Vitality? Reasoning: the soul's force of personality is what gives it the drive to push on through adverse circumstances.

I like the setting, and I think it would make for excellent reading, but I'm not sure how well it will mesh with a class-based system. It seems like one of the central mechanics/concepts is the ability to switch from body to body. But if I'm a fighter-type, why would I ever choose to use any type of body other than the big tough golem guy? This is kind of a crazy idea, but what if the type of body a soul inhabited determined the character's class? Every character/soul would be assigned just a level (a measure of raw power) and could completely change their skillsets by jumping from body to body. That's probably a bit extreme, but possibly something along those lines just might work...
 

nonamazing said:
Instead of having two Constitution scores (one for the currently inhabited body and one for the actual soul), why not have Charisma be the basis for Vitality? Reasoning: the soul's force of personality is what gives it the drive to push on through adverse circumstances.

I had thought of that too, but I want to make this d20. And this means that I will have to leave the attributes mostly as they are, or else attribute generation will get seriously out of whack. Thus, the physical attributes must still count for something, and I will define them as the general ability to interact with the physical world when inhabiting a body. Constitution influences Vitality Points. Dexterity is the fine control. The attribute I am still having problems with is Strength, but I will think of something...

On the other hand, the mental attributes will also be very important, as they take the place of the physical ones in Astral Space - which is not the one from the standard D&D cosmology, but a parallel realm where the souls can float free (and are highly vulnerable, too). I'm not sure yet what kinds of mechanics I will use there, but the following setup is a start: Astral Str = Cha, Astral Dex = Int, Astral Con = Wis.

I like the setting, and I think it would make for excellent reading, but I'm not sure how well it will mesh with a class-based system. It seems like one of the central mechanics/concepts is the ability to switch from body to body. But if I'm a fighter-type, why would I ever choose to use any type of body other than the big tough golem guy?

Several reasons:

- Cost: The better bodies cost much more money.
- Customs: It is bad form to go to social occasions in a full metal body.
- The Law: The really good stuff is likely restricted to the military.

Note that I will likely not use standard golems for these rules. Instead, I will likely adapt some modified version of the Mecha d20 rules that allow you to custom-build bodies - both biological and golem bodies. And since I don't plan to use the standard hit point rules, all these bodies are still fairly vulnerable if they don't have a competent soul inhabiting them...

This is kind of a crazy idea, but what if the type of body a soul inhabited determined the character's class? Every character/soul would be assigned just a level (a measure of raw power) and could completely change their skillsets by jumping from body to body. That's probably a bit extreme, but possibly something along those lines just might work...

Sounds like a lot of paperwork to be. Frankly, it will be complicated enough just keeping track of all the bodies with the normal rules. Besides, one of the basic ideas of this setting is that the soul is something separate from the body...
 

Looks cooler than Urbis.

Strength is easy. You can map it to the mental construction of muscle memory conceptually, but practically you say that strength is a measure of your soul's ability to move nerve clusters, artificial or biological. As a result Strength scores determine what size of golem you are capable of mastering.

All the physical attributes become the pool you build your golems off of. At maximum effeciency you should have a construct that is mapped directly to your scores, but you can fudge them around if you are willing to take on some ineffeciencies. IE, choosing a bigger construct than you are normally capable of piloting and taking a hit to dex even as you go up in strength.

Voila, instant justification for attribute trade offs and size to strength mapping.

I would disagree with the size=HP idea, it seems to throw off game balance and probably doesn't reflect the idea of an intelligence holding onto a body through sheer experience and skill even as physical damage is done that is a staple of most genres dealing with this concept. Though there should be some real game reflection of the durability and toughness of the construct. It also just seems counterintuitive to me that size would map directly to survivability. All too many big things in our world are fairly delicate in terms of functionality.

Other ideas, hmmm.

I like the idea that Daimons are better at 'physical' attributes than humans as their intelligences were crafted for the post-human construct based world and that humans are actually better at magic since they more or less evolved/developed it and have been living in a magical world for far longer than the Daimons have.

Would also be interesting to have age of soul as a starting characteristic. I'm not certain how you would balance it, but it would be a really cool new twist.

Illusion magic becomes much more impressive as people develop increased understanding of the relationship between sense and the soul.

You could run a whole memory economy sort of thing. Where truly lethal combat involves crippling souls with so many horrific, if false, memories that they become incapable of coherent action.

It would stand as an interesting justification for bringing in an Akashic like skill/memory manipulating class. Or a sort of false cleric who can simulate the effects of divine magic save only in relationship to the world of the disembodied. Who through their powerful new levels of soul manipulation could prove to be a real threat to the world devourer.

There should be a sort of very basic set of classes, along the lines of racial classes as developed by say AU or UA, that represents people who become very specialized in utilizing certain types of bodies.

The Monk becomes a sort of ultra specialized body pilot, where the false cleric class above becomes their contemplative Ki user counterpart. OOOOOO!

Ki power becomes soul power! I like it!

If you wanted to keep the arcane user has armor issues balance point, you could specify that arcane users have to have a certain amount of 'meat' to work with in order to pull off magic at the highest levels of effectiveness.

You might actually have an order of druids that has totally eschewed meat as a means of showing the utmost preservational respect for nature. Which, ironically, functions more on the presence of proto soul energy in the world around the druid user than on the innate soul energy of the druid his or her self.

Problems:

It's kind of hard for me to figure out a hook for bards in this setting.

Thieves are going to have trouble with the backstab ability, something will have to be adjusted there.

Druid energy comes from proto-soul, Clerical from soul eater, Ki comes from high soul energy, where does arcane fit into that? Could it be that it comes from sort of medium or grounded soul energy? Thus the need for meat, and the ability of arcane energy users to move through dimensions more easily? Also ironically the Arcane users ability to shield and manipulate the soul as a whole where the Ki user can only muck around with the internal components?

To fit this scheme or something similar some weird justifications are going to have to be made for Barbarian abilities. I can see them as either a sort of modified intuitive/enraged version of the Monk user or you could work druids up as master organic body users through their study of meat and matter and Barbarians as the sort of more practical and basic appliers of that art with the martial focus of the warrior.

I would argue that Paladins would work, but since they utilize divine energy they would have to be related to the star entity. And that would likely involve some weird alignment dancing, but it would be appropriate to the polarizing and crazifying aspect of the star creature.
 

Dr. Strangemonkey said:
Looks cooler than Urbis.

I wonder how I should interpret that comment... ;)

Strength is easy. You can map it to the mental construction of muscle memory conceptually, but practically you say that strength is a measure of your soul's ability to move nerve clusters, artificial or biological. As a result Strength scores determine what size of golem you are capable of mastering.

Perhaps the Character Strength should be interpreted as the ability to use the body's strength efficiently - you can still use a body that's much stronger than you are, but this will result in penalties to skills, to hit tolls, and so on...

This will also help to create the "clumsy giant syndrome" frequently seen in movies and cartoons - big and strong characters do a lot of damage, but are less likely to hit than smaller and agile ones. Compare that with D&D giants, who almost always hit!

All the physical attributes become the pool you build your golems off of. At maximum effeciency you should have a construct that is mapped directly to your scores, but you can fudge them around if you are willing to take on some ineffeciencies. IE, choosing a bigger construct than you are normally capable of piloting and taking a hit to dex even as you go up in strength.

Voila, instant justification for attribute trade offs and size to strength mapping.

Interesting, but I'd like to keep the math at a minimum...

I would disagree with the size=HP idea, it seems to throw off game balance and probably doesn't reflect the idea of an intelligence holding onto a body through sheer experience and skill even as physical damage is done that is a staple of most genres dealing with this concept. Though there should be some real game reflection of the durability and toughness of the construct. It also just seems counterintuitive to me that size would map directly to survivability. All too many big things in our world are fairly delicate in terms of functionality.

Well, it's not automatic. Still, a big slab of iron (to pick one example) will withstand a lot more damage than a small one, and in general, larger golems will endure more punishment than a small one. But this is independent of vitality points.

I like the idea that Daimons are better at 'physical' attributes than humans as their intelligences were crafted for the post-human construct based world and that humans are actually better at magic since they more or less evolved/developed it and have been living in a magical world for far longer than the Daimons have.

I have to think about that...

Would also be interesting to have age of soul as a starting characteristic. I'm not certain how you would balance it, but it would be a really cool new twist.

Perhaps the ability to manage the physical world (=physical attributes) becomes weaker as the soul ages, just as the soul itself becomes stronger (=mental attributes)?

You could run a whole memory economy sort of thing. Where truly lethal combat involves crippling souls with so many horrific, if false, memories that they become incapable of coherent action.

It would stand as an interesting justification for bringing in an Akashic like skill/memory manipulating class. Or a sort of false cleric who can simulate the effects of divine magic save only in relationship to the world of the disembodied. Who through their powerful new levels of soul manipulation could prove to be a real threat to the world devourer.

I'll have to think about that. But I'm not too eager to make manipulation of memories too easy, as that might have weird effects on experience points and level.

There should be a sort of very basic set of classes, along the lines of racial classes as developed by say AU or UA, that represents people who become very specialized in utilizing certain types of bodies.

For aesthetic reasons, I want to stick to the basic classes as much as possible. But there will certainly a place for more specialized feats and prestige classes...

You might actually have an order of druids that has totally eschewed meat as a means of showing the utmost preservational respect for nature. Which, ironically, functions more on the presence of proto soul energy in the world around the druid user than on the innate soul energy of the druid his or her self.

I had thought of limiting druids to inhabiting the bodies of natural plants and animals only - no constructs, alchemical chimera, etc. And even in those cases, it is more of a symbiosis than an usurpation of the body. This will give the druid some better abilities while in these bodies, however, since they can also use the instincts of the animal...

Thieves are going to have trouble with the backstab ability, something will have to be adjusted there.

Well, there are plenty of biological bodies left, which can be backstabbed. Most humans will prefer to remain in humanoid bodies, since that's what "feels" the most comfortable to them. Golem bodies feel relatively "numb" to them.

I'll need some time to think all those other points you mentioned through...
 


Eh, I think that for a setting as variant to the norm as yours is a new class is justified not only as regards the world itself, but also as a hook to help players understand the new features of the world. I'm not suggesting that you come up with an entire variant set just one class that's explicitly there to highlight the cool points of the setting.

One thing I was thinking is that you could keep hit points and not have to introduce the vitality system if you let criticals do damage directly to the body of the mech through attribute points.

That way the mechs limbs can come off and slow down immeasurably over the course of the combat but the daimon might still be hanging on running it with whatever reduced capability is around. Then when the attribute is reduced to zero you still have total shut down. The bodies can be as tough as you want but still generally less tough than DnD characters since attribute damage is much harder to come across in DnD and never ever as high as hit points. Different models of Daemon might have attribute damage DR and suddenly the Barbarian's DR class feature becomes a lot more useful in the setting.

I think you can justify druids working with non-organic bodies based on the fact that they eventually gain the ability to turn into elementals which is as non-organic as you can get.

Some other ideas:

The ability to transfer souls comes directly out of the defense against the star beast. The initial protection against soul suck consists of a sort of magical shell around the soul. The locational protection consists of that shell writ large over an area. During the course of the battle it is discovered that souls could actually move out of there bodies and travel along the edge of the larger area shields. Obviously this didn't happen to everyone and was pretty awful or you would have had a bunch of useless soulless bodies lying around the protected areas. Maybe only one city fell this way as a result of some magic used by the star priests.

But the upshot is that arcane magic users figure out how to maintain soul integrity under weird circumstances, which makes sense since their magic relies on the integrity of the soul. The Ki users actually proove able to sense the souls and work within the barriers, which makes sense since their power is based on improving the essential functions of the soul. The Druid users provide the final technology for immediate transmigration through their innate knowledge of fitting old souls into new bodies. They never prove able to give non-druids the ability to retrofit the body to the desires of the soul, but they are able to use their spells and form orientation techniques to make the transfer of a soul into a new body practical.

Also, if you really wanted to hit the Transhuman genre hard, you could have people who are capable of soul riding along the locality shells. This gives you the mind-walking element of the genre implicit in things like net-fiction. I had been tempted to make a joke about how the soul protecting magic consists of making cages in the ethereal plane and that the soul surfers thus ride the ethernet, but I refrained.

As a wicked twist, you might specify that the soul sucking creature actually prefers souls with a strong alignment. Thus the creation of divisive fanatical clerics on the one hand and Paladins on the other. Thus becoming good is actually a bad thing.
 

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