D&D 5E Atheism/Agnosticism in 5e?

[FormerlyHemlock]

Hopefully without getting into a debate on the distinctions between the two....

[EDIT: The words 'alatrism' - refusing to worship a god, and 'maltheism' - questioning whether a being is worthy of worship regardless of its divine status have been introduced later in the thread. These are clearly better terms for what I'm asking about here, & avoid the definitional debates I'd hoped to avoid. Please consider the remainder of this post accordingly! ]

Do we yet know if it's possible (RAW - every table will differ, of course) for a character to refuse to worship any deity in 5e?

I'm working on a warlock character, & I think he might be of the 'these beings are indeed powerful, but not truly 'gods' in the way that word is commonly used' bent - if permitted.

With the looser rules, is this just more likely to fall into an individual DM question?

Essentially all my PCs are maltheist with respect to D&D gods, to the point of being unable to comprehend why anyone would worship them, or what "worship" means in that context. (Is it simple fealty or something else?) It's a limitation of the player spilling over to the PCs...

I see no rules to forbid this.

 

[Sunseeker]

Technically speaking, there is no faith in D&D as we conceptualize faith IRL. Everyone knows the gods exist. They're real, palpable things. Having knowledge is not faith. Faith requires believing in something with sometimes no evidence at all that it's real. The D&D gods are real. Therefore you don't need faith and therefore you don't "believe" in the gods, you "know" them.

 

[Lanefan]

Umm, Lanefan, AFAIK, bards have been able to heal in every single edition of the game. And, the idea that their effects are generated by the manipulation of sound does not match any definition of a bard I've ever seen in D&D. Where are you getting this?

1e Bards were in effect Fighter-Thief combo's (also the first-ever prestige class) with extras; neither of those classes can heal, and while a 1e Bard can inspire and make you think you feel better for a while (inspirational songs etc.) I don't recall them ever being able to do any real healing.

As for the magic-through-sound thing, it just makes sense their magic works through sound if for no other reason that every magical effect they can do involves either playing an instrument or singing/vocalizing or both. It might not be in any formal definition of the class but it's a pretty easy conclusion to reach.


Lan-"6 months between original post and my response is, I think, a personal record"-efan

 

[Elderbrain]

I forgot to mention that Planescape leaves open the question of whether the Great Unknown really exists, or whether the Athar's clerics get their spells from another source, such as their faith alone.

Also, one thing to take note of in 5e is that a cleric's alignment and that of his deity needn't match, thus allowing (say) a Lawful Good god to have a overzealous cleric who drifts into Evil behavior in the name of his god, while still getting spells (at least, until said god notices and decides to do something - if the deity does.) A god need not even be given an alignment at all, thus allowing for the use of currently-worshiped real-world gods without having an argument at the table about what said god's "real" alignment is or should be, or even if the god is real. As far as the game rules are concerned, it makes no difference.

 

[Hussar]

1e Bards were in effect Fighter-Thief combo's (also the first-ever prestige class) with extras; neither of those classes can heal, and while a 1e Bard can inspire and make you think you feel better for a while (inspirational songs etc.) I don't recall them ever being able to do any real healing.

As for the magic-through-sound thing, it just makes sense their magic works through sound if for no other reason that every magical effect they can do involves either playing an instrument or singing/vocalizing or both. It might not be in any formal definition of the class but it's a pretty easy conclusion to reach.


Lan-"6 months between original post and my response is, I think, a personal record"-efan

But a 1st level bard is a Druid as well. I can't remember but I thought Druids got some healing spells.

 

[Elderbrain]

Another way to deny that the gods are truly divine is to claim that they are demons in disguise... this is a popular claim by monotheistic religions with regards to other people's deities.

 

[transtemporal]

Hey what, are we allowed to necro threads now?

 

[pemerton]

1e Bards were in effect Fighter-Thief combo's

<snip>

I don't recall them ever being able to do any real healing.

But a 1st level bard is a Druid as well. I can't remember but I thought Druids got some healing spells.

They have CLW at 2nd, CSW at 4th and CCW at 6th. Also Neutralise Poison at 3rd. I don't think they get Cure Disease (but could be wrong about that), they definitely don't get Cure Blindness/Deafness, and they can't Raise/Resurrect.

 

[Rune]

Technically speaking, there is no faith in D&D as we conceptualize faith IRL. Everyone knows the gods exist. They're real, palpable things. Having knowledge is not faith. Faith requires believing in something with sometimes no evidence at all that it's real. The D&D gods are real. Therefore you don't need faith and therefore you don't "believe" in the gods, you "know" them.

I know I've said this before, but this assumption is simply not true of all campaigns. In some games (all of mine, for instance), the only contact people of the world have with deities is through the clergy. Certainly, there is room for skepticism--for all the layperson knows, that cleric is just a charlatan casting another brand of arcane magic. And even the clergy can't know for sure where their power comes from.

And, where there is room for skepticism, there also is room for faith.

 

[Paraxis]

Hey what, are we allowed to necro threads now?

With this thread it is more of a second coming than necromancy.