Attacking an Invisible opponent when using your sent ability

[Beerf]

The sent ability says you can pinpoint an opponent with in 5ft. What Penalties do you take when attacking them?

The word “Pinpoint” tells me you know exactly where they are and you should not have to take any penalties.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The word “Pinpoint” tells me you know exactly where they are and you should not have to take any penalties.

Pinpoint means that you don't need to guess which square they're in.

You still suffer a 50% miss chance for full concealment.

-Hyp.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Hypersmurf is correct. Knowing where something is not the same as being able to actually discern it.

 

[Caliban]

According to Monte Cook, in the case of Scent "pinpoint" means you don't even suffer the 50% miss chance. It's basically a 5' Blindsight against opponents you can smell.

Since he's the guy who wrote the DMG, I have to accept that this is what he intended.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But "pinpoint" is a defined term where Invisibility is concerned.

From the SRD:

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment (and thus a 50% miss chance). At your option, a particularly large and slow creature might get a smaller miss chance.

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has not pinpointed, have the player choose the space where the character will direct the attack. If the invisible creature is there, conduct the attack normally. If the enemy’s not there, roll the miss chance as if it were there, don’t let the player see the result, and tell him that the character has missed. That way the player doesn’t know whether the attack missed because the enemy’s not there or because you successfully rolled the miss chance.

If Monte meant Scent to avoid the miss chance, he should have used a word other than "pinpoint" - since the description of Invisibility states that a pinpointed creature still benefits from full concealment.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

But "pinpoint" is a defined term where Invisibility is concerned.

From the SRD:


If Monte meant Scent to avoid the miss chance, he should have used a word other than "pinpoint" - since the description of Invisibility states that a pinpointed creature still benefits from full concealment.

-Hyp.

Since Monte Cook specifically said that's what he meant, then I don't really care what he "should have" said, I'll go by what he says he means.

[Edit] I can't find the post he made where he stated this, it was a couple of years ago. So I have nothing to back up my claim. You may be right.

 

[Plane Sailing]

According to Monte Cook, in the case of Scent "pinpoint" means you don't even suffer the 50% miss chance. It's basically a 5' Blindsight against opponents you can smell.

Since he's the guy who wrote the DMG, I have to accept that this is what he intended.

If Monte actually said this, then he has made a mistake, conceptually and in gameplay terms. smelling where something is can in no way be the same as actually seeing it well enough to attack except for certain strange cases like the steel predators which are given scent-based blindsight (still a bit stupid, because of the vast differences in the way scent works compared to hearing/sight/vibration-touch... speed of transmission of information for one thing).

The only sensible ruling IMO is to say that the scenting creature doesn't have to guess the 5ft square to attack... but still gets the miss chance.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Since Monte Cook specifically said that's what he meant, then I don't really care what he "should have" said, I'll go by what he says he means.

Since in general people have to go by what the books actually say, rather than having to guess what somebody says Monte said somewhere in order to adjudicate the rules, I don't really care what you care about. Well, okay, I do care what you care about, Caliban, but the point is that if it's not in print it doesn't affect my answer to a question about what the rule is.

If you can cite anything published where regular people can find it if they aren't looking too hard (e.g. the errata), then that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. And whatever Monte may have said is certainly something that individual DM's might want to know, even if he did say something crazy.

 

[Caliban]

Since in general people have to go by what the books actually say, rather than having to guess what somebody says Monte said somewhere in order to adjudicate the rules, I don't really care what you care about.

I'm not sure wher you are getting that you have to "guess what somebody says Monte said" from.

There was no "guessing" involved, I stated how it worked according to Monte Cook.

Nowhere did I state that this was official, only that it how he said it was supposed to work. No guessing involved, he was pretty clear about it at the time.

Well, okay, I do care what you care about, Caliban, but the point is that if it's not in print it doesn't affect my answer to a question about what the rule is.

If you can cite anything published where regular people can find it if they aren't looking too hard (e.g. the errata), then that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. And whatever Monte may have said is certainly something that individual DM's might want to know, even if he did say something crazy.

If you agree that the intent as explained by the author is something that some people might find useful, then why are you jumping on my back for giving that?

I simply said that I will do it as the author intended, even if he didn't word it properly enough for some people.

However it's all irrelevent, since I can't find the post where he stated this. It was on the message boards on his site, and they have been upgraded a few times since he made that post a few years ago, and I can't find it with the search function.

So call me a liar if it makes you feel better, I'm sorry I tried to share any information on the topic. Jeez.

 

[Darklone]

Well... no matter what he said, it does not sound logical to avoid the miss chance.