Attacking around corners

[Dragon Mage]

I know I read somewhere that stated it was not possible to make melee attacks around corners. Am I dreaming?

Is it possible to make a melee attack around a corner, (with cover bonues).

Is it possible to make ranged attacks around corners.

Where is this ruling stated?

 

[irdeggman]

PHB pg 151 has an illustration for cover in melee and another for cover against ranged attacks that has text explaining it.

PHB pg 151

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target's square goes through a wall (inlcuding a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

PHB pg 152

Total Cover: If you don't have line of effect to your target (for instance, if he is completely behind a wall), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can't make an attack against a target that has total cover.

Does that help?

PHB pg 152 talks about total cover.

Basically it depends on whether or not the opponent is adjacent to you, you are making a melee or ranged attack, or if he his around the corner (thus total cover).

 

[Noumenon]

Basically it depends on whether or not the opponent is adjacent to you, you are making a melee or ranged attack,

Hey, that means a corner is the best place to make a ranged attack in close-quarters fighting. Seeing as how the opponent can't make an opportunity attack against you when you have cover -- free shot!

 

[irdeggman]

Hey, that means a corner is the best place to make a ranged attack in close-quarters fighting. Seeing as how the opponent can't make an opportunity attack against you when you have cover -- free shot!

Yes, but you still suffer the attack penalties because your opponent also has cover with respect to you and he is also in melee so you have an additional -4 for firing into melee.

You just avoid the AoO.

 

[Noumenon]

Good answer -- didn't think about that part with the melee. Not everyone has Precise Shot.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Yes, but you still suffer the attack penalties because your opponent also has cover with respect to you and he is also in melee so you have an additional -4 for firing into melee.

The opponent doesn't have cover from ranged attacks with respect to the attacker, only from melee attacks.

I also disagree that the penalty for firing into a melee applies. The rule (PHB, page 140) says: "...you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll because you have to aim carefully to avoid hitting your friend." It makes no sense to say that you have to aim carefully to avoid hitting yourself with a ranged attack.

So yes, a corner is the ideal place to make a close-quarters ranged attack.

 

[Kask]

The opponent doesn't have cover from ranged attacks with respect to the attacker, only from melee attacks.

Right, otherwise Arrow slits wouldn't exist...

 

[Noumenon]

I don't know if you can find "cover from ranged attacks" in the SRD. Arrow slits ought to work on the same concept that a low wall gives cover only to the one who's closer to it.

I do agree with Vegepygmy's other point about the melee, but I'd probably want a fighter standing at the corner too to keep the guy from 5-foot stepping up to me.

 

[frankthedm]

I don't know if you can find "cover from ranged attacks" in the SRD.

I do.

Cover
To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.


img18.imageshack.us/img18/9610/coverrevise.png

 

[irdeggman]

Thank you frankthedm.

Isn't that what I said without using the specific quotes from the SRD?

And even if a character has cover you are still in melee so the shooting into melee penalties still apply.

I don't think that the rules define arrow slots but there are similar words for line of effect (for spells) that should work though.

To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 squarre foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.