Attacking with torches

[Vicar In A Tutu]

This might be an easy question to answer, but I found myself having a bit of difficulty with this during the last session. The heroes were fighting rot grubs, and one player, being frustrated with his lack of attack powers that could deal full damage to the rot grubs, asked if he could attack with his torch, and whether or not this would deal full damage. This was one of the few times I as a DM felt a little lost. What would be a good answer? In the end, we decided just to skip it, he attacked like normal and I promised to make a post on ENWorld asking for advice. In hindsight, this is what I would have done:

- You don't deal full damage (why not? Attacking with a torch does not qualify as a close or area attack, besides, the rot grubs were wet and slimy from crawling around on the damp dungeon floor)
- You treat your torch as an improvised weapon, dealing fire damage

Does this seem ok to you?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'd have the PC do a MBA, and let the torch either:

1) do 1d6 fire damage. Since it's essentially an improvised weapon, it wouldn't have any proficiency bonuses.

OR

2) be treated as a club with +2 Fire damage.

 

[Ryujin]

Or simply, "You don't deal full damage because, just like with a sword or axe, you only squash a few grubs at a time."

I would only give improvised weapon damage, with no additional fire damage. Now if he was smart enough to toss a flask worth of oil on the swarm first, then all bets are off.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

Now if he was smart enough to toss a flask worth of oil on the swarm first, then all bets are off.

How would you adjucate that? A minour action to throw the flask of oil (maybe a minor to retrieve it from the backup as well), but much damage? Does the flask of oil automatically hit the chosen square? Maybe if it's adjacent to the character, but how about a distance of four squares? Ongoing fire damage? How much? Maybe use the special damage chart in the new DM screen?

 

[delericho]

I would rule that it was an improvised club (whatever damage the club does, reduce by one die size. So, d6 becomes d4), and give a bonus of 1d4 fire damage on the first hit only. After that, the torch is extinguished and must be relit.

As for the rot grubs, I still wouldn't give full damage, for exactly the same reason the sword doesn't.

However, if the PC were to throw oil/alcohol on the grubs and then attack them with the torch, I'd allow full damage for the torch, plus a bonus for the alcohol.

 

[delericho]

How would you adjucate that?

Depends how pedantic I wanted to be.

I'd probably require a standard action to give the grubs a good, even coating, but allow it to be done automatically. Thereafter, a standard action to attack with the torch, causing the (full) damage from the torch, plus 1d6 from the oil, and the same ongoing (save ends).

 

[LostSoul]

It would depend on what he's doing, but either:

Improvised weapon dealing normal damage or
Improvised weapon dealing normal damage to the swarm; effect: you or an adjacent ally taking ongoing damage takes normal damage and is granted a saving throw against the rot grub's ongoing damage as a free action.

 

[Ryujin]

How would you adjucate that? A minour action to throw the flask of oil (maybe a minor to retrieve it from the backup as well), but much damage? Does the flask of oil automatically hit the chosen square? Maybe if it's adjacent to the character, but how about a distance of four squares? Ongoing fire damage? How much? Maybe use the special damage chart in the new DM screen?

Yes, a minor and a minor, then a standard to ignite it. 1d6 damage and treated as an area attack, for purposes of hitting swarms, so no damage reduction. No ongoing damage. If the player put some work into it, before he actually needed it, then I'd make it range 5/10 with burst 1, for the same damage. Call it a poor man's Alchemist's Fire.

 

[RangerWickett]

What does page 42 say?

I'd let the torch deal extra damage, because a sword has to hit a grub to hurt it, but being near fire is enough to cause a grub to pop.

And if the player wanted to pour oil and light the grubs, I'd say it's a minor to get the oil, and a single standard action to pour and ignite the oil. It would do whatever the appropriate 'Low damage, limited use' entry is for the party's level.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

What does page 42 say?

I'd let the torch deal extra damage, because a sword has to hit a grub to hurt it, but being near fire is enough to cause a grub to pop.

And if the player wanted to pour oil and light the grubs, I'd say it's a minor to get the oil, and a single standard action to pour and ignite the oil. It would do whatever the appropriate 'Low damage, limited use' entry is for the party's level.

My first thoughts went to page 42. In the new DM screen, there are no "low damage" entries, only "Single target" or "two and more targets". Under 7th level, single target, it reads: "2d8+6". I said that to the group, also suggesting it should be fire damage. One player protested against making it fire damage, citing balance reasons. Everyone else thought it was unthinkable that fire shouldnt deal fire damage. Anyway, the players thought 2d8+6 damage with torches was too much. It was more than many bacis attacks, even at-wills. They would all run around using torches all the time. Especially if an attack with a torch against an adjacent enemy counts as an automatic hit, like I think you suggested.