Atypical Clerics and Wizards who like versatility

[Byronic]

I was trying to convert my Cleric to 4.0 (funny, no prestige classes or anything, it just has to do with character concept) and I noticed something funny. I know we don't have much information but I wonder if Clerics might be too helpful, selfless and kind in 4.0. A lot of his healing powers seem to rely on him actually going into battle, risking his own hide in order to heal his comrades.

I wonder what about the Cleric that doesn't really like going into the front of battle. Cowardly clerics or arrogant ones that believe that others should sacrifice their lives for their glory. Do you think that the Cleric spell list will have sufficient room for more hands off neutral and/or evilness? Divine Curses and blessings from far? Or is the Clerics class a bit more restricted in what it can do in 4.0 (making it far less effective from afar then a 3.x Cleric could be for example)?

For the second part of my question, I noticed in the prequel that Wizards only seem to be able to change their daily spell per day. Does anybody think that this will count for more spells then that in the game? If not, who here will miss the wizards (as well as cleric and some other classes) ability to choose out of many spells for that day.

I think I will. I'm not sure I'm quite happy with a Wizard that uses the same encounters day in, day out until he levels and then has the same one until he levels again

 

[Cirex]

Clerics got a wide array of ranged spells, if we are to judge the pregen, but it seems they are mostly attacks, like Lance of Faith. It seems the cleric is a buffer (leader) and the debuffing is made by the Warlock and maybe some other classes (controllers), so I don't think a "divine curser" path fits the cleric...but that's why multiclassing feats and paths exist.

About Wizards, they will have to do with a limited amount of combat powers and do the rest with rituals.

 

[Cadfan]

1. The 4e cleric is probably more restricted than the 3e cleric in certain ways. The primary spellcasters all seem to have gotten this treatment, in order to stop magic from overshadowing melee.

2. The cleric seems designed to either fight in melee, or attack at range with magical attacks that do moderate damage, but also inflict status effects. Generally the status effects are positive ones that benefit allies.

3. Cleric per encounter abilities seem to cover the general curse or offensive magic, such as Cause Fear.

So, yes, you can create a cleric who lurks in the back and attacks with ranged spells. Odds are, its actually one of the cleric Paragon Paths, meaning you can specialize in that quite deeply. But you will note that the range on these spells is usually a bit low, meaning you have to get into the thick of things. That's why you get armor and hit points, and the wizard doesn't, I suppose.

I don't think anyone other than the wizard gets to change their dailies. I won't miss it myself. What the wizard (and other spellcasters) lose in complexity is justified, in my mind, by the increase in complexity and choice made available to other character classes. I don't think that per encounter abilities will get stale, because at higher levels you seem to have an awful lot of them. You get several from your class, more from your paragon path, possibly some from your race, and then more from your gear. Plus dailies, feats that grant you abilities or improve certain actions, and your multiple at will abilities. There's a chart that shows you how much you get just from your class alone, if you want to get an idea how much is available to a particular character at a given moment.

 

[Scipio202]

Since the pregen wizard didn't get any utility powers, its possible that the wizard may have a "pick one of three" aspect to its utility spells just like the dailies. But, we don't know.

 

[Dausuul]

I noticed in the prequel that Wizards only seem to be able to change their daily spell per day. Does anybody think that this will count for more spells then that in the game? If not, who here will miss the wizards (as well as cleric and some other classes) ability to choose out of many spells for that day.

Not me. I've hated prepared casting for 20 years. I hardly ever play wizards these days, simply because I have no patience for preparing spells any more; I prefer the sorceror in 3.X, and the 4E wizard looks like a godsend.

 

[Dr. Confoundo]

If you want a cleric who imposes penalties on the foes, rather than bonuses on his allies, perhaps looking into a warlock multiclass might be helpful.

 

[tombowings]

If you want a cleric who imposes penalties on the foes, rather than bonuses on his allies, perhaps looking into a warlock multiclass might be helpful.

Or just playing a warlock and change the fluff around a bit.

 

[Will]

I will be VERY disappointed if the nonmelee cleric isn't viable in 4e. Very very very disappointed.

One of the things I loved about Complete Divine and Complete Warrior was that it gave clerics a little more ability to be meaningfully diverse. Couple that with cloistered cleric, and you could actually play a cleric who didn't wade into combat but provided holy power from the rear.

Because a cleric isn't a damned paladin!

I also don't want to have to wait until level _11_ to actually pick up some ability to focus this way.

Here's hoping.

 

[Victim]

The pregen cleric seemed mostly a ranged character.

 

[Oni]

I used to love playing wizards because I liked them as unique problem solvers. I'm a little worried that might not be as much the case in the new edition. I hope there is still going to be a class to play that's got a good problem solving utility belt so to speak. If casters are pretty much reduced to attacks and defenses I'll be disappointed. I always like the odd spells and never like just playing a walking artillary platform.