Atypical Clerics and Wizards who like versatility

[Majoru Oakheart]

I used to love playing wizards because I liked them as unique problem solvers. I'm a little worried that might not be as much the case in the new edition. I hope there is still going to be a class to play that's got a good problem solving utility belt so to speak. If casters are pretty much reduced to attacks and defenses I'll be disappointed. I always like the odd spells and never like just playing a walking artillary platform.

To be fair the difference between a wizard and any other class(except sometimes clerics) when it came to problem solving wasn't that they were "unique problem solvers". It was simply that they had answers to problems written on their character sheets.

When I find out the monster has walked right through a wall and I'm a fighter....I start walking down the hallway looking for a passage that leads to the other side.

As a wizard, I cast passwall and let everyone through.

If I need to get up a cliff that's 500 ft high and sometimes would require me to climb horizontally, upside down to get to the top and I'm a rogue...I try to find a path up.

As a wizard, I cast mass fly and everyone gets up.

I think that just having an answer as simple as "I check off one of my 5th level spells" to problems so complex that no other class could possibly solve them without magic items isn't a matter of just being unique, it's a matter of being horribly overpowered. It's just that everyone is used to wizards being overpowered since the beginning of D&D and everyone accepts it at this point.

When I first began seeing info on Wizards, my first thought was "Wow...Wizards are going to suck now...". Now, however, I've decided that I really need a change of mindset to realize that the amount of power they have in 4e is about as much as they should have had all along.

 

[Byronic]

Or just playing a warlock and change the fluff around a bit.

Actually I decided that based on the spells he preferred to use, his religion and his personality (I made his personality first, the class and everything else came afterwards) that his deity might change him from a Cleric to a Warlock. Just shift his Wisdom to Charisma, make some supernatural event (all well within the bounds of the story) change his class and wundaba. The character is converted to 4th. I still find it ironic though that with all the character conversion threads, a straight cleric to cleric conversion seems extremely unlikely with my character.

I think I'm going to love rituals though. I might create a character who's very goal in adventuring is to collect many many rituals.

 

[Pickles JG]

For the second part of my question, I noticed in the prequel that Wizards only seem to be able to change their daily spell per day. Does anybody think that this will count for more spells then that in the game? If not, who here will miss the wizards (as well as cleric and some other classes) ability to choose out of many spells for that day.

It seems to me that the cleric gets this sort of flexibility via his channel divine power .
He has a choice of 3 uses for the channel (one from a feat) but can only use one of them each encounter. I predict he will get more uses of the channel as he levels or through feats/other options plus evidently feats to extend the range of options.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

1) I wonder what about the Cleric that doesn't really like going into the front of battle.

2) I think I will. I'm not sure I'm quite happy with a Wizard that uses the same encounters day in, day out until he levels and then has the same one until he levels again

1) maybe you are looking more for a divine controller? or divine striker? I suppose we will see them in future books

2) I know that this is a taste question but i like that the core ability are more fixed, while the daily one can be changed it makes the wizard very Vancian
and it makes senses at will/encounter are the ability he use more often because they are simpler and you are more trained, daily need more attention

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Cowardly clerics or arrogant ones that believe that others should sacrifice their lives for their glory.

Cowardly clerics aren't Heroes. Arrogant clerics that believe others should sacrifice their lives for their glory are villains.

4e is, I think, trying to get away from that sort of thing if I'm getting the vibe right.

 

[Mallus]

I think that just having an answer as simple as "I check off one of my 5th level spells" to problems so complex that no other class could possibly solve them without magic items isn't a matter of just being unique, it's a matter of being horribly overpowered. It's just that everyone is used to wizards being overpowered since the beginning of D&D and everyone accepts it at this point.

This.

I'm betting that wizards and clerics will still be able problem solvers, but they'll no longer have the same monopoly on solutions that their traditionally over-broad spell lists gave them.

 

[Byronic]

Cowardly clerics aren't Heroes. Arrogant clerics that believe others should sacrifice their lives for their glory are villains.

4e is, I think, trying to get away from that sort of thing if I'm getting the vibe right.

God I hope not, remember that there have always been 9 alignments, and only 3 of them are "good". I see no reason why an Evil character might not be self serving and value his life above others. Also if we move away from that we wouldn't have stories with elements of redemption or anything like that.

I dearly hope that Fourth Edition will not limit character concepts in such a manner. After all, the heroes journey is one of change as well as defeating the evil dragon.

 

[Counterspin]

Could you give us an example of something that suggests that 4e will attempt to discourage evil characters Nightchilde-2?

 

[Lizard]

According to the 4e design ethos, if you're not making an attack roll every round, you're not having fun. Thus, clerics of all gods will unleash their divine powers by hitting things. Sunday services in the Points of Light setting are...interesting.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Could you give us an example of something that suggests that 4e will attempt to discourage evil characters Nightchilde-2?

Nothing concrete, but, for example, the tiers aren't called "Villainous," "Exemplar of Evil" and "Vile."

I'm not saying evil characters/campaigns won't be POSSIBLE, just that the vibe I get from the stuff I've read (which is likely the same stuff most of us has read) is that the PCs are meant to be heroes or anti-heroes. I'm also not saying that an "evil campaign" is necessarily wrongbadfun either, 'cause it ain't.

Plus, the whole points-of-light setting..what's the point (ha! See what I did there?) of having light if you're going to encourage people to be part of the darkness?

The descriptions of the various tiers, IIRC, talked about SAVING the town/nation/world, not destroying it under a boot of EEEEEEEEEEEEvil.